A polite argument about why BTE 1 was pants

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Beth1983, Apr 11, 2009.

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  1. Beth1983

    Beth1983 Second Technician

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    Not really surprised by that :-) but trying to keep polite on my end. If I get cranky I shall blame it on pregnancy hormones and will leave to get chocolate to sedate me!
     
  2. hubbard

    hubbard Deck Sergeant

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    Beth does have some valid points which I agree with, and I do think maybe having the three episodes together as a TV movie would have been much better, they clearly strung it out for ratings and to create extra excitement.
     
  3. Daniel

    Daniel Console Officer

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    Probably should have made it clear, I was only using the Office as an example of what Beth was on about. Wasn't trying to contest you in any way, as you are right in what you say. Although if you think tastes have changed since 16, I was 10 when Series 8 was released so imagine what happened to mine!

    I suddenly feel like Rimmer in Polymorph, after he's had his anger drained...
     
  4. Beth1983

    Beth1983 Second Technician

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    But you see I don't think what they were trying with the humor was any different then the older dwarf, just not as good. There are huge differences in comedy taste though I will agree with that! Simon for instance likes Brittas Empire and I can not stand it, will not watch it, will not let him watch it if I'm in the house and there are things I like that he...just doesn't see what's funny about.

    So I will agree with that.
     
  5. jacksmith

    jacksmith Catering Officer

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    I think it is more subtle not exactley laugh so much your sick, but hey doug tried the obvious jokes before and they were hit and miss, plus part one needed to establish alot in a short space of time.
     
  6. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    Well, not to get into a debate about the Office but it's not about humiliating people it's about the humour in socially awkward situations. And I know it's a different type of humour, but my point is that it's more character-based (ie the jokes are funnier because you know the characters and their personalities). A perfect example of what I meant is when Lister was at Kochanskis grave and did the "... i pray to god there's some car chases in this one" line. I can honestly say that was one of my favourite lines in the show ever. Does that make me wrong for thinking that, or you wrong for disagreeing? No! It's just a different type of humour than previous shows - which also plays into how it was delivered. If they'd have had an audience, I bet Craig would have delivered it in a less serious way and it would have gotten a laugh for a different reason.

    You can say it would have been better with an audience, but criticising it for NOT having one is a different thing.

    But when you're watching something longer, surely your expectations change because you know the length of the thing as a whole is different and so there'll be a lot of build up. People were probably turned off by this ep because they were expecting a 23 min episode (which they had every right to do) and instead got the first 23 minutes of a longer story. As I said, this probably is down to bad writing, but it doesn't mean that when you see it in context, it won't make more sense once the pay-off from the setup has come.

    I have to go to work now and won't return here untill the next ep is shown. Thanks for the discussion!
     
  7. Daniel

    Daniel Console Officer

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    ooo, I've just had another thought. Beth, you say you'll watch the other two just because your other half wants to (in spite of not liking it)? Before considering things as a write-off, watch those and see your views there. If parts 2 and 3 don't feel so poor to you, try watching the 3 together at some point. I realise you are not pleased with the idea of saying this, but all 3 together might work for you if 2 and 3 don't feel so bad in your opinion.

    Yes, the first 20 minutes should engage the viewer, something which it has failed to do for you, but there are films out there that are really good, although start out incredibly weak. Watching it in pieces would have been disasterous as the ultimate product would be ruined due to the poor start for them, but due to it picking up and becoming good later it remains a good film. I would give examples but I'm afraid none spring to mind at the moment. My housemate is really good at these things but sadly it'll be a week yet before I could ask him for any examples, but have a think and see if you can get where I'm going with this.

    Obviously if after watching 2 and 3 you still think it's dreadful, don't bother trying to watch all 3 together as it's unlikely to bear any improvement for you.

    Just a thought.
     
  8. Beth1983

    Beth1983 Second Technician

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    See to a person with social anxiety humiliation=socially awkward situations. Means the same to me :-) But again! Even while I'm hiding behind my hands and feeling sick I do GET why other people like it. To be honest? I didn't even see a joke in the grave scene, I can see why it was meant to be a joke? But I think considering the situation and how it was used it wasn't funny, just sad...well would have been sad if I had managed to feel for the characters by that point which I hadn't sadly but that's because I didn't find the episode engaging.

    But you are right that people have completely different tastes in humor.

    Still don't see why I can't criticize for that but oh well, different opinions again. :-)

    Ahhh but when I'm watching something longer I still need to be grabbed early in the show. It's like if I'm reading a book, doesn't matter if it's 800 pages long or 15 pages long there should be something to grab me quickly.

    23 minutes into a movie for instance is enough time to grab me just as 1 chapter is enough time to grab me for a book. If I've read a chapter and it was a labor to get through why would I keep trying?

    Yes some books are rewarding if you can push through them, but often they aren't. Same with movies or t.v. shows.
     
  9. Beth1983

    Beth1983 Second Technician

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    Yep, he's more willing to give it a chance to me. He didn't dislike it as much as I did, but he didn't like it either.

    I might if my husband wants to, but I will say again that they full well knew they had three episodes so they should have planned it better. Again my opinon.
     
  10. Daniel

    Daniel Console Officer

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    Aye. Some aspects of the planning are flawed. Something I pointed out in one of the other threads, they could have very easily given it a longer time slot, allowing them more time to play with (up to the old timeframe practically) which may have been able to improve the overall feel and not make it feel like something hacked rather inexpertly into three pieces.

    Oh well.
     
  11. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    Husband here. As Beth said, I didn't dislike it, I just didn't like it. The only joke I really was the 'in my country we have several' line. The other jokes I think I either missed totally, or didn't find particularly funny. The whole episode seemed to me at once rushed (lots of different things happening) and slow - I have to say I'm kind of impressed at that. The squid and Rimmer seeing it on the radar reminded me too much of the Despair Squid and then just randomly vanished. I'm sure I saw the same shot of Lister being squashed up against the screen about 4 times and as other people have said - where did Rimmer's car fascination come from?
    I know a lot of this might be explained in the next two episodes which is part of the reason I want to watch them. It might be very good over all. but the first part just didn't seem great to me. I feel that Doug has a problem with the multi-part episodes. Series 8 felt like it had more multi-part episodes than there were actual episodes in the series.
    I'm still hoping that the next two episodes will be good but I don't think it was a good start.
     
  12. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    i believe many fans are sticking up for part 1 out of loyaty, and the haters are ripping out of it because it was so different to any red dwarf seen before

    my view in general was that it had a classic feel to it and could of been great, and it had a few funny bits but i believe dougs movie obbsession might have got the better of him here, this was certainly no doctor who or sitcom

    in my appinion its bad for fans and viewers when they have to complain about the lack of as they call it "canned laughter" to be told when to laugh, and even worth for the show when it had to be watched a second time to notice missed jokes
     
  13. dynamostia

    dynamostia Third Technician

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    The genius about the jokes in RD was that there were a variety of them for different people. For example, 'crashed more times than a zx81' was a joke that many wouldnt get unless they had used one, some of the cats fashion jokes didnt hit home with me but probably did with others. In BtE none of the jokes were funny. A giant testicle? Perhaps the reason you all laughed was out of group embarrassment of how awful and contrived it all was.
     
  14. giga

    giga Third Technician

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    This. I have freinds who like this style, (EG South Park, Two Pints of Lager...) and I just do not find it funny. And they don't like RD, OFAH
     
  15. davedwarf

    davedwarf Skutter

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    Red Dwarf died starting series seven episode one.

    I'll always remember why the show was good before then but I do wish they would stop trying to breath life in to this dead hog of a show that it became.

    I also now realise why no one wants anything to do with the film.
     
  16. Daniel

    Daniel Console Officer

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    Rushed due to time constraints methinks due to the poxy adverts methinks (see previous whinge on that front).

    Anyhoo, you have a fair point regarding Doug's multi-part episodes, but that may just be related to his desire to create the Movie over the years. Series 8 had 3 single-part episodes (Cassandra, Krytie TV and Only the Good...), while the other 2 of what was in actuality a five episode series were mulit-part. Didn't really work too well as Pete didn't score too well in the recent "poll of polls" on the forums.

    Final point regarding the car fascination - it would probably have worked better with telegraph poles, as well established character trait of A.J. Rimmer. Possibly it was related to Chris Barrie himself, who it seems like engines and the like (as per his shows during the past 10 years), but not quite fully Rimmer...

    Hopefully you'll enjoy tonight's episode a bit more.
     
  17. jacksmith

    jacksmith Catering Officer

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    "Not quite fully Rimmer"? Go watch marooned please.
     
  18. Daniel

    Daniel Console Officer

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    Fair point, although he was making up that entire story. And in the later episodes, after Series 4 and the "Build To Last" ideology, Rimmer's interests became intentionally more.... obscure, let us say, rather than the semi-normality of the cars.
     
  19. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    And he was driving a Jaguar E-Type in Better Than Life.
     
  20. Stalfos

    Stalfos Third Technician

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    It's like you've decided to make an account just to wind people up. Oh wait...
     
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