a question about "only the good"

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by voo7hees, May 28, 2009.

  1. voo7hees

    voo7hees Third Technician

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    even if rimmer went back into the proper universe and had the cure on a piece of paper how can the antidote restore red dwarf and save everything,
    and after people like hollister and all the others left on starbugs they would eventually die because they would run out of fuel and supplies, who was left on red dwarf, we know rimmer, kochanski, lister, cat kryten but who else please answer my question
    and which parrell universe did lister and that jump into, if its the same one as what rimmer was in why didnt he see them, and why did the ship change shape, in the finale of series 7 you see the original ship at the end of the episode but beginning of series 8 its a different ship.
     
  2. goldy_T_O_T

    goldy_T_O_T Deck Sergeant

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    I think the story was played out or designed more like a cartoon eps so in the end, what happens in a previous eps doesn't really apply to the next. Its sort of like artistic license, you as the artist can make up the rules for the world you create.
     
  3. peas_and_korn

    peas_and_korn First Technician

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    The antidote had 'corrosive negativity', and seemingly could not only stop corrosion but reverse it.

    The dwarfers and the proisoners were left on the Dwarf. Amount of supplies on the 'bugs is up to debate.
     
  4. voo7hees

    voo7hees Third Technician

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    thanks for the answer but if the dwarfers return and everythings happy the prisoners will still be there
     
  5. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    This is correct. The antidote would have saved the ship before the apparently-unstoppable corrosion wrecked it, but left the prisoners still alive on Floor 13.
     
  6. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I often wondered about that lot. When Rimmer returned to the ship and the snack machine told him they'd all gone to the parallel universe, I wonder if that included the prisoners as well. Could be a nasty surprise for the guys in the mirrorverse unless all the bad guys suddenly became goody goodies being under that universes rules, but that doesn't seem to be how that universe works. Rimmer retained his own mind, although his body changed in one aspect(ahem.)
     
  7. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    To be honest, the questions you've put forward are some of the easyer to explain with this episode which is riddled with things that make no sense.

    Putting aside the often criticised and wholly out of place surreality of the ending, the whole "mirror universe" was an awful, awful plot contrivance that made no sense whatsoever. There was no science or attempt to explain it even in layman's terms, we are just supposed to accept that the crew are suddenly blessed with higher scientific minds than Einstein and Hawking combined.

    I'd be very interested if Andrew or someone could explain why nobody felt the need to say, "err, hang on a minute, isn't this stretching credibility a bit" when the idea emerged. I know its ultimately a comedy show but that doesn't mean its Family Guy. There have always previously been attempts made to explain stuff like this, even if just in a throwaway line.

    Its not even comparable to the bad continuity Red Dwarf is famous for, its just totally baffling and doesn't seem to have any credible explanation to it other than "we needed to get a mirror universe in there somehow" and nobody could think of a credible way to do it so they just decided to treat the audiance as idiots.

    Gah, it still annoys me to this day. :crying:
     
  8. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    Nothing to do with me - I wasn't working on the show back then!
     
  9. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I wasn't too keen on it either. Not the concept itself or even the scenes it involved, just the fact this gadget was pretty much mocked up out of nowhere. Thing is, that episode is so jam-packed full of stuff* and they only have 30 minutes to deal with, they just didn't have enough time to go through to much explanation.

    As way of explanation, I think it was Kochanski who thought of the Mirrorverse, so maybe it was something she had come up with in her travels. I don't think she would have the technical knowledge of how to mock one up though, but I got the impression Kryten was the main person behind that..... which leads to the second explanation...

    I think it's easy to forget that Kryten has been around for a while. He was made a couple of centuries after Red Dwarf launched in deep space, and he has been online for hundreds, more likely thousands (even millions**) of years. Much of that time was aboard his vessel taking care of skeletons, true, but according to series 7, that was one of two vessels he has served on. He could have had plenty of adventures before giving the computer a nice soapy clean and maybe he came across the technology during that period.

    It's a shame they didn't give ab it more explanatin, even if it's just a sentence, though.

    *It feels like 2-3 episodes all stuck together in some ways.
    ** It works out around 3 million years real time, but I don't know if he would have spent much time off-line or in stasis.
     
  10. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Kryten is also a domestic toilet cleaning droid who didn't learn to break his programming until he met Lister, therfore its unlikely he would have had any prior "adventures" that didn't involve U-bends and its unlikely that Toilet University run courses on quantum physics!

    The idea that Kochanski knows how to create such a device is more plausible but to me its the way the other characters almost mentally click their fingers as if to say "ah, yes, a mirror universe machine, we understand!"

    There were many devices that could have been resurrected to create the mirror universe such as the Holly Hop Drive (parallel universe was not a mirror but it is suggested that the hop drive can do many other things as it was initially designed to take them back to earth).

    It just seems that at this point the writing for Red Dwarf had become incredibly lazy and the show was slipping into the same kind of "we don't need to explain it if its funny" humour as later seasons of the Simpsons, unfortunately like many later seasons of the simpsons, Only the Good wasn't very funny either. in my opinion this was wrong as Red Dwarf isn't and shouldn't be that kind of show.
     
  11. J_Spaced

    J_Spaced Second Technician

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    But they always used to do that, just nod and smile and say "That's just what I was going to say!"

    I agree that Only The Good... feels rushed and can't help feel that "Pete" was a serious amount of padding and expense for a couple of gags that only raised a titter at best. If they'd cut Pete down, maybe even left out the dinosaur and found some other way to "annoy" Hollister, it would have been a great concept. Then we could have had a whole episode to devote to threatening Red Dwarf, then another one with Rimmer getting them out. The cut ending on the DVD extras is far better.

    I think the problem is that everyone involved in making Red Dwarf is/was extremely enthusiastic. Just watch some of the documentaries on the DVDs where people start gushing about every little idea. Then they get really depressed about every hurdle too.

    "What it was, was that we didn't have the money and oh god it was awful... ugh we ran out of time... huff."

    It wouldn't do to have a real party-pooper in the team, but sometimes it feels like there was a Meg Ryan "Harry met Sally" sort of character in the script meetings:

    "How about a dinosaur?"

    *Thumping table.* "YES YES YES! OH GOD YES!"

    "Great."
     
  12. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Personally I think the only reason they put a dinosaur in is because somebody had a dinosaur CGI model left over from the Jurassic Park/Walking with... craze.

    I also have to disagree that the mirror universe was in anyway a good idea or even considered to be an original idea. For me Only the Good seems like an attempt to recreate Out of Time that fails in every aspect. You have the multiple storylines that worked in Out of Time because of the premise of unreality bubbles but fail spectacularly in OTG and end up a confusing mess. you have the cliffhanger ending that was breathtaking in Out of Time but seemed like a lame attempt to recreate it in OTG (not to mention the fact that cliffhangers don't work if there essentially humorous or obviously surreal as only the goods was).
    I wonder if they also shared the late, last minute development time. There certianly seems to have been a spectacular lack of planning for OTG.

    It's strange that Doug has an interview on Red Dwarf talking about series 7 and swearing that that would be the last time he ever listened to other people's suggestions...then he goes and asks his children what they think would be a good ending for the end of series 8!

    I'm still forever glad we didn't get the terrible sounding (to me anyway) ending that "Earth" was meant to have brought us. Swapping insurance details indeed. that really is turning the show into The Simpsons
     
  13. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I did think of the 'breaking programming' thing, when I wrote the above. I agree with you in part... I'm sure he didn't break his programming until he met Lister. And he might not have taken part in adventures personally. It's quite possible the rest of the crew did though, albeit he might not have actively taken part and gone on away missions, etc.

    I'm sure he would have absorbed a LOT of information in that time period though. I recently read the Red Dwarf books, and he proved to have an understanding and knowledge of certain things (the craft's duality drive for example) although he would put himself down "I'm just a maintenance droid, it's not my programming", etc. The breaking of his programming wasn't so much the gaining of different knowledge (although it helped) as the willingness to ACT beyond his previous programming in applying that knowledge. Sure the show has a different continuity to the books, but I think the basic character of Kryten is the same in that regard.

    She is intelligent and knowledgeable in her field, (navigation officer?) certainly. I'm not sure her technical knowledge would cover the creation of such devices though. That would be more a mechanics work.

    I agree with you there, although it was Kryten who did much of the agreeing, if I remember correctly. That suggested to me that both Kochanski and Kryten had encountered that technology. It was Kochanski's idea to use it, and Kryten knew how to put it into action.

    That's a good point actually. That would have been a better idea than the one we got. The Holly Hop drive did turn out to be a dimension hopping drive after all, and although they might not have been able to pin-point a mirror universe, there are plenty of others out there which might have the knowledge they required to gain their antidote. A bit of a lottery though. If Kochanski had been to such a mirror universe in her previous adventures in her own dimension, maybe she'd have the coordinates though.

    As I said, I think that was mainly a time constraints issue. To make it work, I just reason theres a lot of background stuff we're not privy too.
     
  14. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I don't own season 8 on DVD but is there any mention of the "mirror universe" plothole on the commentary? Alot of people have expressed there unhappiness with the Grim Reaper scenario but for me it can be much more easily explained than this piece of poor plotting.
     
  15. 2X4BJerky

    2X4BJerky Skutter

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    I agree, but to be honest i predict there was a rush of trying to finish the series. Following the events of BTE I hope there will be a reasonable explanation for Rimmer's escape....IF THEIR WOULD BE A SERIES 9...*puppy dog eyes*
     
  16. Red_Dwarf_Heroes_Lost_Fan

    Red_Dwarf_Heroes_Lost_Fan Supply Officer

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    I wasn't confused until I read this! :? Anyway, the antidote (sessiumfrankalithicmixialibidiumrixidixidoxydexydroxide) was shown in use in the alternate ending. See that for your answer! It on the S8 DVD and probably the internet somewhere.
     

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