A Yank Schools a Limey

Discussion in 'THE AIGBURTH ARMS' started by BigOleDummy, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Deck Sergeant

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    Since I've been informed that there are no prohibitions on the type of political talk as is the norm in practically every other nonpolitical forum I've ever been in I thought I'd have MY say. So,......
    This is primarily for @neilold.
    Since you seem to be so interested in the political situation on my side of the pond I just thought you might like a few facts to go with your prejudices. I know, I know those of your ilk have very little tolerance for facts , but here goes.

    We are a representative democracy governed under a thing called "The Constitution of the United States". While most of it is quite boring to read and deals with the details of how our system of government works, there is a section called "The Bill of Rights". These deal with different rights we as citizens have in our everyday life. In pride of place "Number 1" as it goes is the aptly titled First Amendment. It says:
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    Yeah, that's kind of pretty, isn't it? Powerful when you think about it. I know.... there's that dreaded "T" word, but trust me thinking is not as hard as you think it is. Try it sometime! You'll be amazed at what you can do with it.
    Now, what that first amendment means is that we, as American citizens can say pretty much anything we want. That's cool! (Now here's where it may get a little hard for you, but give it a try) "Free Speech" applies not only the spoken and written word but also to actions. This leads to some things I don't agree with to be honest but, that's just how free speech work's. That means people have this right:
    [​IMG]
    Yes, we have real Nazis marching in our streets. Imagine that!
    That ALSO means that people have THIS right:
    [​IMG]
    If they so choose.
    As I mentioned before, I am a 2 enlistment veteran of the Army. 71-72 and 76-79 (with another 8 years in the Reserve) if you're interested. Pay attention to the dates. Anyway, again as previously mentioned the oath I SWORE was to the CONSTITUTION of our land, not to a Flag or a president or to a particular ideology but to the Constitution. I hate Nazi's and klansmen but I support their right to speak and assemble. I don't like seeing my Nation's flag burned ,or made into clothing for that matter. BUT I DO respect the right to do it.

    Some people , from the dawn of humanity to this very day, want and "need" to hate others because they are different. To be told what to do and what to think. To have the hatred and prejudices in their soul's stroked because it makes them feel better about their sorry lives. THINK man, it will set you free!

    If you feel the need to criticize MY fellow citizens think twice. We may not agree on everything and we may hate each other at times, but we are one people united under a very beautiful piece of parchment.
     
  2. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I don't believe I ever said you weren't allowed your rights, and if you support my free speech fine. But either way I'm glad you schooled me. I'm certainly not gonna throw a major sulk over it.i actually much admire your amendment to free speech. It's something great about your country. However if doesn't mean you, Me or anyone else has to agree with it all, thus criticism is equally valid. You also have the right to bare arms, which is also controversial, especially after recent Vegas events. I'm not sure which of your rights I have violated, and how, but if you let me know, I will discuss it's validity with you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
  3. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Deck Sergeant

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    Just because something annoys me doesn't mean I can't live with it. See what I said about THAT in the post. Yeah, you call it sulk I call it trying not to get banned. I've since been informed that its hard to get banned for that kind of thing so..... the gloves are off.
     
  4. Nikki the Great

    Nikki the Great Console Officer

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    You can't edit your post AFTER someone has replied @neilold. That's just cheating!
     
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  5. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Deck Sergeant

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    I agree!
     
  6. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Deck Sergeant

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    Since you edited this AFTER I posted my reply to your earlier non-edited post, I'll go ahead and answer the part you put in after I replied to the original. (which was/is just petty imho)

    You're right NOBODY has to agree with me or YOU, thank goodness. You didn't violate any of my "rights", as I'm sure you're aware of. You criticized almost 70% of my countries people for not "supporting" our groper/liar in chief. You criticized NFL players for standing up for what they believe. You made assertions that have no factual basis. THATS what I replied to.
    I must say your editing/changing your post after I replied to the original and your throwing in something totally unrelated to any of my posts i.e. the second amendment, is classic right wing tactics. You can't defend your position so you change the narrative. Or try to anyway. We, I, was talking about our first amendment and our rights that it confers. You say the NFL players shouldn't take a knee. I say its totally within their rights to do so. You say we should 'support" our wanna-be dictator, I say we should, as patriotic citizens, defy him at every opportunity for the shame and division he's brought to our country. For seeking help from a foreign , hostile to our way of life government. We as a people deserve better than that and we'll get it too. He's going down and taking most of his inner circle with him. Then you can cry all you want about your poor little persecuted chump. We'll laugh all the way back to respectability.
     
  7. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I never said your players shouldn't take a knee, i said it's disgraceful during the anthem,why do you keep saying things i said which I haven't? If you wanna not support trump fine I ain't stopping you
     
  8. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I thought you were ignoring me also?
     
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  9. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Deck Sergeant

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    You're not worth ignoring. Decent people ignored your kind before and we ended up with losers like Mussolini and Franco and Pinochet.
    And its not YOUR anthem, so where do you get off by criticizing an American's right to protest? On the other hand, IT IS MY anthem and it bother's me not one bit.
     
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  10. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I'm not worth ignoring, so I am worth messaging then? Ermmmm ok. Thanks, I guess
     
  11. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Deck Sergeant

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    Are you really that obtuse? Do you really not get what I am saying in plain English? :picard: Can nothing penetrate the wood that your head is obviously made of?
    or are you just at a loss for any SERIOUS rebuttal at all?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
  12. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    @BigOleDummy You keep talking about the football players having the right to kneel. I don't think @neilold disputed that. He said they shouldn't do it, not that they shouldn't be allowed to do it. Like you think the KKK shouldn't do it because the message is smeg, but they should be allowed to do it because of the First Amendment. I think we all agree that everyone should be allowed to demonstrate non-violently.
     
  13. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Basically, above. As I have repeatedly said on this forum over the years, I am all in favour of free speech
     
  14. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Deck Sergeant

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    [​IMG]

    But it still begs the question, its NOT your anthem, its NOT your flag, its NOT your NFL, so .......... why does it matter to YOU at all? I could take a page out of your book and say, take care of your OWN countries business and stay out of OURS.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  15. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    No it's not mine, but that doesn't mean I can't make a comment about it. If you wanna badmouth my country, have at it, I don't mind. I'm sure you have made comments about things in this country before in your general life, maybe positive, maybe negative, I dunno.

    I wasn't saying your country or its citizens are any worse or better than mine,or any other, far from it. I have mentioned how it interests me, and what I admire about it other times to.

    Of course all countries have there foibles and grandeur. It's a pity you feel this way really, I thought we were getting on well, and seem to have a lot in common. But your entitled to your own views and opinions at the end of the day, as am i
     
  16. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    The less said about him the better, wherever he is:-)
     
  17. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    The cultural war going on in America is playing out across the entire West [x]. The US has Trump, the UK has Nigel Farage, Australia has Pauline Hanson, New Zealand has Winston Peters, and while some are less personally obnoxious than others, they're broadly representing the same populist backlash against mass immigration. So it's basically the same argument being tweaked for local variation.

    Also, we're talking about America here. You probably don't notice it from the inside, but American politics are beamed into our living rooms every night even though we're not American. We've got Trump-this Trump-that every day too, and we're encouraged to form opinions on him. Non-Americans are passively involved in American politics whether we like it or not. If we're going to be exposed to it then we're going to form opinions on it, because it comes back to the UK.

    You may or may not be aware, but the American "Black Lives Matter" movement has been imported by black Britons. I can't remember which one, but when one of these black-guy-shot-by-police riots happened, black people in the UK rioted too, even though the guy was across the bloody Atlantic and British police don't even carry guns. But they rioted because he was black, because America's racial neuroses are being beamed across social media and tv and they're contagious. So when "Black Lives Matter" signs start cropping up in the UK, Britons are obviously going to start forming opinions about the movement in America.
     
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  18. Ant E

    Ant E Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I wonder what @Bluey thinks?
     
  19. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Deck Sergeant

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    Actually I don't think its my place to comment on your Countries politics OR politician's. Yes I have definite opinions about that, but have the decency to keep them to myself, as its none of my business when you get right down to it. Its YOUR business. For what its worth, The BBC is one of my major sources of news and I'm on the Global Minds survey. Are you? Do you do ANYTHING to try and better your mind or your country? Or do you just whine and criticize ?

    Well to ME, that sounds like a problem of YOURS. I know about your racial problems (see above) and news from the United Kingdom is the first world news I turn to. Have you heard me voice an opinion on that? No, because that's YOUR problem and I figure you and YOUR people can and will work that out. If you as a Nation, MUST APE our Country, then again that has NOTHING to do with me and sounds more of a cultural problem than anything else. Common decency and good manners dictate that I shouldn't involve myself with your all's business. IMHO. My ma brought me up better than that.

    Form all the opinions you want, I don't care one tiny little bit, but when you inject ME into your arguments and opinions then I will MOST DEFINITILY put my two cents worth in. I think BOTH of you need to go back and re-read the laughable "school" that neilold tried to say to me. It wasn't just about ...... well, heck go read it. You goad me like that I will answer. Simple as that.
     
  20. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    Something along the lines of 'mind your own business'.
     

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