And now... explaining away human interference!

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by djmcbell, Aug 14, 2015.

  1. djmcbell

    djmcbell Supply Officer

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    Okay, we know that Red Dwarf is absolutely ages away from the solar system. It still is. We know that it basically kept going in a straight line for three million years (which does not put it three million light years out - it may not even put it one light year out). And then of course you've got the brief moment Red Dwarf made it to light speed which puts it further out (or closer, but I think it was facing away and Holly intended to turn around).

    But, of course, there have been creeping bits of human interference coming along, including:

    1 - Kryten. If you follow the explanation in Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers, the Nova 5 had a drive that could cover huge distances pretty much instantly. We'll use that, and say that humanity develops such drives.

    2 - Hudzen. Of course, he was tracking Kryten and had been alone for millions of years, so we're happy with him being there. Apart from trying to kill everyone.

    3 - Polymorph (not in order). Yep, the Polymorph was drifting in space, though obviously things can drift very fast in space. I guess I'm kinda happy with that. I believe Kryten, before leaving Earth, had heard of Polymorphs before (and we'll say he left the solar system a few years/decades/centuries after Red Dwarf), so I guess it's feasible that the Polymorph could have been there, especially if Red Dwarf had turned around.

    4 - well, now we start getting into confusing territory. The ship Camille was on, to start with. Camille being a GELF. We'll just say that they left the solar system and started spreading through deep space.

    5 - the DNA ship. Again, like the Polymorph, guess it just found its way there (we also have to accept that, with it being a ship, it probably travelled at least some of the way)

    6 - the Justice station, and the simulant. Now we're getting somewhere. How did the entire station make its way there? And the simulant? And what are the chances of encountering both at roughly the same time? Has humanity spread that far (and is so thinly stretched that the Red Dwarf crew haven't encountered any living people yet)? Has something happened that "forced" things out of the solar system?

    7 - the waxdroid planet in Meltdown. It's an entire smegging planet! I guess this could be significantly closer to Earth (because they got there using the matter paddle, though Earth must be beyond its reach). Did whoever built the waxdroid park decide to use a far-flung planet, Jurassic Park style, and have people come there?

    8 - Lanstrom's facility in Quarantine. On an ice planet. Again, is humanity operating that far out, or did something happen to force the ice planet away from its natural orbit? Something like a sun exploding?

    9 - the wreckage of the Esperanto in Back To Reality. I guess this can be somewhat forgiven as it's a seeding ship, and was looking at terraforming the planet - ergo, like the explanation for the Nova 5 and Kryten, I gather it would have either a faster-than-light drive, or like in The Last Human, have travelled there with the crew in stasis.

    10 - oh God, most of series 6. Psirens includes wreckage of human craft, and the titular Psirens themselves. Legion's station. The simulants. The GELFS. And, of course, the experimental craft from Out Of Time (although that was said to have been set for deep space as a safeguard to protect itself from thieves and looters). And of course, we've got the other simulant and Abe from Beyond A Joke, the Leviathan and the different planets in Epideme, Cassandra, the ship with the time wand in Pete (though I guess that can be given the same explanation as the ship in Out Of Time), the escape pod in Only The Good, the Trojan, the facility in Entangled, and the simulants in The Beginning.

    Not quite so lonely. Red Dwarf is clearly travelling through territory which humans have been through in one shape or another, but it is so sparsely populated (for whatever reason - either by humans, GELFs or sims) that they're still practically alone.
     
  2. Yule Sleigher

    Yule Sleigher Console Officer

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    I've often been puzzled by the way in which other life forms react to Lister. It's implied that the human race has been all but extinct for at least thousands of years. We have no real evidence of this, but it's assumed to be the case by the main characters and is never refuted. Yet, no life form, either genetically engineered or mechanical, ever seems especially surprised to encounter Lister.

    Simulants maintain a determined grudge against the species that created them, even though they've encountered none for, presumably, tens of centuries, yet they show no especial excitement at stumbling across one. The crew of the holoship are explorers, yet are dismissive of the first human they've met in millenia. Also, doesn't the chief of the BEGGs claim to have eaten someone who went to an English boarding school? How long do BEGGs live for? Or are there English boarding schools three million years from now run by and teaching GELFs?

    I'm beginning to wonder whether Lister's persistent belief that he's the last man alive is just some kind of narcissism.
     
  3. djmcbell

    djmcbell Supply Officer

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    True. The BEGGs did make me think "hang on, they've come across another human". And the simulants from Gunmen didn't seem particularly surprised either.
     
  4. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    Post season 8 that can be explained given that the rest of the entire crew of Red Dwarf is drifting around in space after "Only the Good". Prior to that it's kinda odd as it almost makes it sound like there were other humans maybe in a similar predicament to Lister.
     
  5. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    Yes. That makes sense.

    I get the impression from the novels that Red Dwarf itself is pretty much tied to the Solar System, but even there they menion that they'd pretty much come to the conclusion that there was nothing else out there, and so the stasis chambers (or whatever you want to call them) were reused for punnishment. A way of keeping individuals out of trouble and preventing them working (and thus not earn any pay) at the same time.

    This raises the question (and I'm aware, maybe this should really be on another thread),

    Was Red Dwarf originally used for interstellar travel, and did it have a full ships crew compliment of stasis tubes? So when they decided to keep it's operations within the system, they reduced the number, but kept a couple for miscreants? But why not just stick them in The Tank? Or maybe they considered The Tank too harsh for the animal smuggling crime Lister commited, but stasis seems a bit overkill, albeit we wouldn't have the basic premise of the series without it.

    Was Red Dwarf originally designed for interstellar travel, but then due to a decision during creation, they changed their mind and minimised the amount of pods? (That makes more sense, to me.)

    Concerning the simulants, they often look rather different from series to series. You had the borg-like simulants of Justice and Beyond a Joke, and the leather clad double eyebrow terminator types of Gunmen...

    I think Red Dwarf X is the first time we've seen two rather different looking simulants (three if you include Hoagey, but despite his looks he seems to be a different kind of droid. Possibly another model of mechanoid who has grown rather... quirky... over time, akin to Hudzen 10 or even Kryten to a lesser degree) within the same series, which really ties in well with your idea of The Trojan being pulled through space as well as time.
     
  6. Yule Sleigher

    Yule Sleigher Console Officer

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    The Tank was classified. They wouldn't stick a bottom-dweller like Lister in a top secret installation for eighteen months for a minor infringement of the rules. In fact, I think it's fairly illogical for them to have put anyone in there for crimes committed en route. However, Tank's purpose may have a bearing on the Red Dwarf's interstellar capacity. The Tank's inmates were being transported, secretly, to Adelphi 12. I'd always assumed Adelphi 12 to be some kind of penal space station, perhaps in the outer reaches of the Solar System, but it sounds more like a planet or planetoid. Unless it's a Kuiper belt object, it's presumably extra-solar, meaning Red Dwarf had a secret mission in another star system.
     
  7. djmcbell

    djmcbell Supply Officer

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    I forgot about the Tank. Whilst we know the prisoners there were being transported to Adelphi 12, which (again) I'd assume to be extra-solar, it may not have been Red Dwarf that was transporting them all the way. In the novels at least, Red Dwarf was initially on its way back to Earth.

    In regards to the stasis booths - again, with a bit of thought towards the novels, we know that interstellar ships did make use of stasis to travel vast distances. Looking at Last Human, there will have been interstellar ships making use of stasis at around the same time as the radiation leak on Red Dwarf. But I doubt they'll have had a full complement - just a few for random use. I actually think there may be a line in Stasis Leak which mentions the amount of stasis booths there are, which may have been just a few. And it may have been in Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers, when Rimmer is using them, where the amount is mentioned too.
     
  8. emmawatson

    emmawatson Second Technician

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    No, I'm pretty sure that *plenty* of people in the millions of years RD was out of contact will have broken the light barrier. Holly would not have been the first in the Dwarf-niverse.
     
  9. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    I would consider that unlikely since we know from Future Echoes that Holly had spent that 3 million years accelerating to the point that they eventually broke the Light Barrier. I agree that they wont be 3 million light years out, but from what we do know I reckon they're probably nearer the 3 million light year mark than 1, although this does depend on how they were travelling in regard to the direction of universal expansion. We just don't have enough information to go on really to even hazard anything but the vaguest guess.
     
  10. Yule Sleigher

    Yule Sleigher Console Officer

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    My understanding is that space is expanding from all points simultaneously. The astrophysics of "Future Echoes" always annoyed me. Even when I first saw the episode at fourteen, I knew it wasn't possible to reach luminal velocities just by accelerating, even for three million years. And it seems a remarkable coincidence that they have been accelerating for three million years yet are about to reach light speed just after they're able to release Lister from stasis. If they have been accelerating for all that time, the question of from whose perspective they've been travelling for three million years should also be considered.
     
  11. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    I thought that it's believed the galaxies were growing further apart from one another and travelling away from the origins of the big bang, so if Red Dwarf was travelling in the same direction it would be nearer the earth, if Red Dwarf was travelling against the flow it would be further away from Earth. However my knowledge of this is very limited and I stand ready to be corrected.
     
  12. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I hope they make use of that map taken from the stimulant ship in Future Echoes in future series, and it wasn't just an excuse for the simulants to chase Hoagie.

    I'm not sure how accurate a static 2 dimensional object representation of a massive fluctuating 3 dimensional expanse would be though (unless there's some futuristic holographic or nano technology built into that ancient looking cloth or parchment) but extrapolating for millennial drift (or the lack thereof) could be a plot point....

    It seems too good a thing just to leave for that episode anyway.
     
  13. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Assuming constant acceleration (not unreasonable in the vacuum of space), then reaching light speed after 3M years would put them a distance of 1.5 light years away from the origin, assuming travel in a straight line and a starting velocity of zero.
     
  14. emmawatson

    emmawatson Second Technician

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    Well, they've yet to meet any other humans, aside from Lister. The only other humans out there is the alt-Kochanski, and the nanobot created crew. So, Lister could be the last original human.

    I wonder what happened to the rest of the Cat Race that left in the other Ark. Imagine if they had found and colonized the Earth.
     

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