ARE WE REALLY NIT PICKY?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by velera, May 4, 2009.

  1. velera

    velera Skutter

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    And we're still debating.

    I think it shows how passionate we are as "Dwarfers" how much we love this damn show. I still think back at some great moments from Red Dwarf:

    FROM THE EPISODE HOLOSHIP:

    KRYTEN:
    Sir! They've taken Mister Rimmer! They've taken Mr. Rimmer!

    CAT:
    Quick! Let's get outta here before they bring him back!

    LISTER: Lister to Red Dwarf, we have in our midst a complete smeg pot.

    OR FROM DEVILS AND ANGELS:

    EVIL TRANSVESITE RIMMER TO LISTER:
    First, I'm going to beat you within in an inch of your life. Then; I'm going to have you.

    *******
    Now these lines I chose because for me they really stuck out in my head as I wrote this. But more importantly, they remind me of just how funny Red Dwarf is. The cast interaction was such, that these 4 characters when together could insult one another and still remain a tight knit group who in the end -- truly relied on each other's friendship. Try and remember just what stands out in your memory which Red Dwarf scenes made you laugh. Which stories were so spot on that you can quote it and it still makes you laugh.

    As an American viewer, I can say Red Dwarf is unique. It didn't need one-liners. The story dictated the humor. Having a first rate cast makes all the difference as well. I can't imagine anyone else playing these characters.

    My point is that Back to Earth wasn't funny nor hysterical. But, it did make me smile. That's because I had the assurance that the show wasn't dead which brought a genuine smile to my face. I was happy. Damn happy. Saying that, I admit to myself that no crime was commited here. Unfunny shows and unfunny writing aren't punishable by death (at least not yet).

    But what came out of that broadcast was an inferior reflection of a once great show. No effort was made to flesh out the story or clean up the poor dialogue. Can anyone honestly say that this latest incarnation of Red Dwarf is superior or equal to that of say, Rimmer World? come on, let's be honest here.

    We're grateful we got a Red Dwarf episode. We're relieved there's more Red Dwarf "product" out there. But unless someone intercedes in the writing department, even those who thought Back to Earth was a superior product will think twice before they claim Red Dwarf is in good hands.

    I understand the strain of writing something and having it fizzle out. Just when you think you've got a great scene you find it doesn't work. Or more terrifying: It's not funny. To give you an example, in the USA most sitcoms rely on the "one-liner" to conclude a joke. No effort is made to make the show funny. That's 90% of what we view here in the USA. Unfunny shows having to use laugh tracks because those behind the scenes know no one in their right mind would laugh at such utter crapulance.

    In the meantime, Back to Earth despite solid ratings still for me gained those ratings because of Red Dwarf's reputation for being out on the fringe and funny. It's that reputation that is suspect to me now. Again, let me point out that I will watch whatever comes out of Red Dwarf's current writer. Maybe after all this, he will either get a new writing partner or the old one. But there must be an acknowledgement that Back to Earth has had some major issues in its final form. In doing so, we fans can at least keep those who hold the keys to the kingdom on their toes and with a friendly warning: Bring back the quality because even we could lose interest".

    It doesn't make us nit picky. It makes us, the consumer, the viewer, the voter, the watcher demand more.

    Richard Rivera
    USA
     
  2. jacksmith

    jacksmith Catering Officer

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    I think there was some bad dialogue in BTE, not much but some, although only one piece springs to mind "And without water, me and the cat are gonna die." but maybe that was just lister taking the whole situation in a jokey manner.

    You could say that the meta-stuff was badly written self-indulgent pap, but you could just as easily say that it was handled well and the BladeRunner references adedd colour to a fine storyline.

    I guess i wasn't expecting an episode of series V like some people were, i was following the production news closely and as soon as i saw the 6min preview i knew the tone of the specials, i judged it on it's own, as Dwarf, not in comparison to what i think Dwarf should be. It had a bunkroom scene, an oceanic leviathan, a guest character and movie homages, exactley what i ecxpect Dwarf to have.
    It added more to the Kochanski/Lister story, and genuinely had me on the verge of tears, i actually thought some lines were very clever, and the slapstick was what failed in my mind, although Rimmer constantley nutting himself did get a chuckle out of me.

    Red Dwarf BTE was a movie, a pheonix from the flames, not a conclusion, not a new series, but it was what it was.
     
  3. velera

    velera Skutter

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    When Star Trek: The Motion Picture appeard on the big screen, everyone realized this wasn't the Star Trek that helped endure us to the chracters. Gone were the interactions, the inflections, the commaraderie, the style, look and feel and emotion that made the show so great.

    Well, Here is the UK's own misfire. Red Dwarf: Back to Earth.

    The show whether it comes back as a series, special or feature film will be an example to the those behind the scenes of what not to do. Just as The filmmakers behind "Wrath of Khan" went back, took a look at the show's history and realized what was missing.

    The team currently behind Red Dwarf need to look back at the show and learn from it. And the fans need to own up to the fact that this version, this so-called film was not a feature digital film. It was a 3 part episode of a tv show. It didn't have a feature presentation. If they pieced all 3 parts, think about, it could have been released theatrically. But no. Designed for tv with a budget for tv.

    Red Dwarf: The Motion Picture, in order to have any chance of competing theatrically would need a budget in the area of $60-80 million dollars USA. That's the minimum needed and doesn't even include the national advertising needed.

    Could it shot more affordably? Sure. re-dress old sets, use CGI sets etc... but the script would have to be a top notch Red Dwarf script. Back to Earth is not of sufficient writing quality, on par with early Red Dwarf to justify the enormous funds needed for a theatrical feature.

    For my part, I would LOVE to read Red Dwarf: The movie script. I bet there, we would find the Red Dwarf we're all waiting for. Until then, all we have is Back to Earth.

    By the way, on a last note, USA sitcoms get a bad rap for using one-liners because they're overused. Shows like All in the Family, Mary Tyler Moore, Cheers, Frasier, etc... became the measure by how long lasting, memorable, quality written sitcoms are remembered. Look at Black Adder. It's still regarded as brilliant and holds up. THAT's quality comedy writing.

    For my part I miss "The Young Ones". The most rude, crude and brilliantly obnoxious comedy I can remember.

    Rich
     
  4. jaybo1973

    jaybo1973 Catering Officer

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    Off on a slight tangent, one of the funniest shows on TV at the moment is the inbetweeners. It is one of the few modern shows that makes me laugh out loud, the way that red dwarf used to do
     
  5. Tex_Rimmer

    Tex_Rimmer First Technician

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    I think Star Trek: The Motion Sickness's problem was that it desperately wanted to be 2001: A Space Odyssey. But 2001 was one of those stories that works better with characters you haven't heard of before, because the story is about the situation, rather than the characters.

    I haven't seen BTE yet, but I doubt it makes the same mistake. Though there's apparently a lot of CGI in it, it sounds like the story is still more about the characters than the effects.
     
  6. jacksmith

    jacksmith Catering Officer

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    I though this was a film just that Dave wanted it a 3 parter so they could get more ratings over the weekend?
    Like it or not, the majority of fans thought back to earth was amazing, me included, Lister's emotional storyline and the recession references...It gave it the best it had for an annoyingly short budget. This was not a misfire, the DVD will sell milions and although controversial, i think you'd look at it diferently if you looked at it as a film, this wasn't a story that Doug couldn't help but make a three parter, it was a rollercoster ride with action drama and comedy.

    And Tex, there isn't much CGI, the ship is CG, and some corridors, a skutter and the backdrops of the big cargo rooms.
    And a building i won't spoil the name of. But it wasn't ever like "look at this, it's pretty and shiny!" it was always functional.
     
  7. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I don't get peoples problem with that line. People have interpreted it as being a "too obvious" talking to the audiance moment or asked "who was Lister talking to". I don't think it was at all, it was quite obvious to me watching it first time that it was part of the whole 'deliver worse and worse news to Kryten' gag that gradually ruined any positive effects he got from his holiday and reverted him back to "one giant tension knot".

    Especially in the incessantly cheery, gerbil faced delivery that is a defining characteristic of Charles protrayal of Lister :-)
     
  8. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Possibly, if what you're watiing for happens to be a complete reboot of the franchise starting from scratch with the characters in their late forties and a quite different story.

    Personally that isn't what I've been waiting for in a Red Dwarf movie.
     
  9. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    What exactly are you basing that on?

    Dwarf has a massive number of fans (as evidenced by the DVD sales) and so the opinions of fans on a couple of message boards don`t necessarily tell all. The opinions on the net have clearly been split down the middle anyway.
     
  10. starbugtwo

    starbugtwo Second Technician

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    As a fully fledged star trek fan as well i can agree that the motionless picture was not as star trek of old but at least it was a start of more trek as i hope this will be the start of more dwarf . i am new to this forum and not had time to read all the posts but it does seem this is a active forum with many views . as to whether folk are being picky , well at times i think fandom can be as can all folk .
     
  11. velera

    velera Skutter

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    ATTENTION:
    JUPITER MINING CORPORATION
    EMERGENCY TRANSMISSION:
    MASSIVE RADIATION LEAKAGE HAS WIPED OUT CREW. ALL HANDS DEAD. SHIP REDIRECTED TO DEEP SPACE UNTIL DEADLY RADIATION REACHES SAFE LEVELS.

    PS:
    **** HAPPENS.

    END TRANSMISSION**********

    I had this dream that Red Dwarf: Back to Earth was everything I had hoped for. And I've re-watched it and I'm still as Kryten would say "In disappoint mode".

    I say at this point, let's just discus the future as the present Red Dwarf has split fans down the middle. I'm willing at this point to wait for the next red dwarf special, series, whatever.

    In the meantime, I'm going to act like the old fart I am and re-watch the original episodes and cry out like an elderly crow and shout at the kids: "I like me Red Dwarf the way it was dammit!"
    "Now you kids get off my lawn!!"

    PS:
    ANYONE FANCY A VINDALOO???

    Richard Rivera:-D
     
  12. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    I have this dream where posters watch their language on the forum...
     
  13. Daniel

    Daniel Console Officer

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    We all have that dream, but it doesn't mean it's going to happen.
     
  14. Smegbot

    Smegbot Second Technician

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  15. petetranter

    petetranter Catering Officer

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    But even if you love it, there will be so many people telling you how bad it is :x and how disappointed they are :crying: and why you shouldn't like it :twisted: and that you must only like it because of blind loyalty to the show. :roll:

    It never ceases to amaze me when reading "favourite show" threads or "worst show" threads - how someone will say they don't like something that had me falling on the floor, practically coughing up a lung with laughter - but their favourite show was something like 'Only the Good'.

    It really does come down to being a matter of taste and Red Dwarf has picked up fans of varying tastes and ages over a period of 20 years.We've all seen something in it that we've made a connection with but which is the real Dwarf?

    Well they all are but because we've all got our personal favourites, we're disappointed when Doug takes it in a different direction. I think any direction that new Dwarf takes will disappoint a lot of people.:-(

    Some of my favourite episodes had some fantastic lines delivered by Norman as Holly.
    Now the only way you would ever recapture that is to write Kryten out, as he took most of Hollys lines but without Robert Llewelyn it wouldn't be Dwarf. When Norman returned for series VIII I was really pleased to see him back but ultimately disappointed that he didn't have any great lines.

    I think what I'm trying to say is because Red Dwarf has been so great over so many series, it is not possible for Doug to write an episode that would completely satisfy me, let alone everybody else as well.

    But that's okay. If it only approaches the magic of past glories, it will still be better than 90% of the stuff that's on now.
     

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