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Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Andrew, Apr 10, 2009.
Again, another alright episode. Haven't got much to add except what's been said already!
No human being enjoys being insulted and criticised. A large number of fans want to see Red Dwarf back on TV, and stupid comments from people who slate it mercilessly will not improve the situation.
There's giving it crit', and there's being a tit. Unfortunately, an awful lot of the latter is floating in with the wreckage of the HMS Overhype.
I REALLY enjoyed this episode. I thought the first one was good, but I believed it would get better because that episode was really just establishing the story, particularly how they get back to earth.
The second episode, I have to admit, was bloody brilliant.
Highlights for me were:
- Katerina's elbow swipe bit
- Rimmer's light beam thing being in the shape of his body when he goes through the paper.
- DVD bit
- the bit on the escalator
- the 'bunk scene' and Lister's toilet tale
- finding money down the sofa
- the cropping of the picture
- sorry to interrupt the warhammer
- Rimmer being too busy cleaning his hands to be neurotic
- Rimmer killing Katerina.
It's safe to say that I bloody enjoyed it. There were some classic RD moments, some of which were really quite oldschool, plus parodies of RD, sci fi, and even the fanbase. It didn't need a laughter track, because my brother and I created our own I also enjoyed that it tried to explain a few things which had happened between series 8 and the special, and also gave a few hints that there may be more RD in the future.
For a special, I thought it was bloody good and am looking forward to the third installment.
I felt the down points were:
- how long it took for them all to go through the port hole. this could have been done a lot quicker and left some space for more gags or storyline.
- how quick both the crew and the store-owner believed they were fictional characters, though I suppose this did save time for more gags.
- I'm not sure why, but I didn't enjoy the bit with the nose specialist that great. It was okay, but not great.
- The scene with the kids was important for telling us that Kochanski could come back, but it went on too long and I found the kids annoying. However I liked how their theory was backed up in a scene earlier when Kryten looks a little nervous or something when Kochanski was mentioned in the shop.
- Mentioning the Dave channel. That was just tacky. I hope they take that off for the DVD release.
- This isn't necessarily GNP fault, but the I've found that the ad breaks just zoom in and aren't announced, and thus have me thinking michell and webb are part of the episode for a brief moment! Just a screen signaling the break and creating a gap between the episode and the ads would be good. But I suppose that wouldn't be a problem on the DVD release.
1: How could Lister read Chinese?
2: Is this some kind of Back to Reality dream?
3: How did RD sustain two holograms or even bring another on board?
4: Where did Katerina come from, and is there an underlying reason why she wants to erase Rimmer?
5: What happened to the squid thing? Is it still in the water tank? Is it related to how they got back to earth - like maybe in Back To Reality. Did they get contaminated/infected etc.?
6: Does the Cat's origami have any significance other than being a reference? They seem to take some time to focus on it, especially by the sofa.
7: Just a side note, but why did Rimmer take the condoms? Is it just a joke? Can he actually use them now he's a hard-light hologram?
8: Will Chloe Annet, and maybe even a Holly, have a cameo when they meet the actors?
Ooooh I'm excited! Can't wait for tonight!
If he doesn't like it, he'll just have to come back on board then
I think episode 1 and 2 of this special don't rate compared with the quality of series I - VII. Series VIII didn't work because it stepped away from the premise of the original story, a bunch of misfits stuck in space.
This special seems to be meant to reintroduce the characters and set things up for a new series (9 and hopefully 10?). With any luck the story will take the crew back where they belong, bouncing around space looking for a curry, being chased by creatures who want to do things to various parts of their anatomy.
I will (obviously) watch episode 3 today, but I'm not expecting anything special (maybe a setup/hints for the actual new series). It's quite obvious the actors are trying to get back into character with this special and that should aid a much better performance later on.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
Bear in mind this wasn't made with professional pundits in mind. It was made for the fans by a cast and crew that love the show (some people worked on it for free in order to get it made). Robert Llewellyn in particular seems to be spending a lot of time communicating with fans and getting feedback from them.
It's very easy to sit back in your armchair and criticise, but bear in mind that people have put a lot of effort into actually getting this made in the first place. If you think the actors are now bathing in wads of cash from Dave then you live in a fantasy world. It's quite obvious doing these episodes is more than just another job to them. Grow up.
Here we go...if anyone criticises anyone else then they're bullying. Grow up sweetie, its called free association and back in the dim and distant days of yore, when school children were allowed to be crap at something and teachers were allowed to point out that simply going to the toilet in the right direction didn't deserve a gold star, we all learnt how to take criticism and accept it, ignore it, allow it to wash over us, or simply rebut it. That's how the real world works. Sticks and stones etc…
I haven't said anything cruel about anyone in the show and with a few minor exceptions I don’t think anyone else has. So stop trying to hijack the argument by climbing up on that big high horse and giving us all marks out of ten for politeness and niceness. This isn't a Jane Austen novel! Who set you up as the touchstone of propriety?
As for the remarks about drama school, the cast may not have been to one but I have. One of the most valuable ‘chats’ you may have if you are lucky is with other established actors who tell you that today's bad review is tomorrow’s cat litter liner.
Sorry if you think that is 'howwid or kwu-el', but I'm sure you'll get used to it whan they let you out on weekdays.
Watched part one and was expecting to watch 2 & 3 and go away thinking the whole enterprise mediocre but nostalgic. However episdoe 2 blew me away. The first ten mintes i couldn't stop laughing. The whole dvd video concept was just pure genius and wonderfully done by the boys. There were a couple of weak points but i'm genuinely excited about part 3. The reality they are in is clearly not ours & i'm intersted how their going to resolve it. Also love the slightly more serious Kochanskis moments as Lister's love of her was part of what made him such an appealing character. Part of me is secretly hoping meeting their creators will somehow show grant & Naylor coming back together as some sort of gestalt entity after years of separation. Personally i think it's amazing Dave has been able to commission these programmes as a digital channel. I really hope they've already commissioned a new series and it'll be announced at the end credits. I'd like to thank everyone who came together to make these specials possible. Think some of the negative posters should realise how much of a miracle it is that there is new red dwarf material being created. to me there's been enough great moments and hopefuly more to come in part 3, that it'll let the weaker moments slide.
Hi. Long term Red Dwarf fan, but not really got too involved in online fandom for this and other shows after bad experiences with Doctor Who. Enjoy most Red Dwarf apart from, I suppose, Series VII, though thought it picked up again in VIII. So first post here...
The bad - it needs... well, apart from Rob Grant, a an audience for the actors, especially Danny I think, to react off and lift the performances a bit. That drive room sequence in Ep. 1 just felt awkward. the cast seem to be leaving pauses for laughs, expecting them to be dubbed in after. Of course, you can understand why it wasn't filmed before an audience due to the amount of CGI and location filming. Was the intention to show the complete story to an audience (of fans?) that didn't come off? Or was it protection against spoilers?
Character wise, they're all there really, as much as they can be - they've never been consistent... though from their point of view, why after all their experiences, viz the Despair Squid and various jaunts into parallel dimensions, do they just accept that they are, definitively, TV characters? Couldn't they just be TV characters in this dimension?
That said, Red Dwarf is a comic strip style show, where continuity has never mattered, and it's designed primarily to make you laugh - it's *not* an SF show where plot invites and deserves critical analysis. (Some might say Doctor Who should get off on those charges as it's 'just for kids' but that's another argument...!) Having been only here five minutes, dare I suggest some people seemingly have never noticed that all the episodes up to this point had laughter tracks...?
I'm glad Kochanski has gone - Clare Grogan was great, but Chloe Annett, though pretty,.. well, wasn't, although of course her Kochanski was radically different in personality too. Sophia Winkleman is extremely easy on the eye and a far better actress - not sure she's gone for good just yet. Though she oscillates between Russian and Polish, I think...
The jokes are still a bit thin on the ground, but it was a lot funnier this time and the 'are you listening to music?' 'No.' bit was superb. Now I really want to know what the story is with Series 9 and 10... perhaps like great chunks of Doctor Who's Hartnell/Troughton era, we'll never see them complete, but we'll be able to assemble random photos, crackly soundtracks and threadbare clips of varying quality to work out what they were/are going to be like
On the plus side, after hating the CGI in VII (twelve years ago, with stuff done on a home computer, versus 2009 in a pro studio notwithstanding) I thought the effects were an *incredible* achievement. The virtual sets, and the old-style Red Dwarf ship again (instead of that elongated version) all looked terrific.
So, looking forward to the final ep, and definitely think there's potential for more.
I read that it's the lowest budget they've ever had. The poor guy (Naylor) has been trying to get this show on TV for a decade.
He's had people phoning up pretending to be the Duke of Manchester, companies that pledged money and went bankrupt days later, ignorant people at the BBC to contend with and much more.
He's managed to get it on TV and the actors have put a lot of effort into it. With each episode, it has slowly returned more to the original feel of Red Dwarf. I hate it when people just dismiss things.
Damn. So definitely no car chases then?
I think this reflects a poor decision on Dave's part to split it into 3 episodes, when it doesn't really stand up well that way. All 3 need to be viewed in one sitting.
That would of course be excellent! But I fear some of the drastic changes that Doug has made have put an end to any chance of Rob getting involved again. It's a bit like a musican returning to his old band where they have a whole new load of songs that they may not even like
Ah the grown-up rebuttal. Always nice to parodied rather than properly argued against. Makes conversations that much easier, doesn't it?
I have never said that criticsm is bad per se. At all. I'm not awarding niceness like a primary school teacher
But I assume, with your great drama school background, that you might have been taught once or twice that words are relatively powerful things and the English langauage has a capability of something called nuance. AT least those are usually the first two pieces of info that tend to be bandied around. An actor standing up for not packaging words carefully for their audience smacks rather of hypocsrisy. No-one who has been trained in the power of words should really be using the sticks-and-stones argument.
Oh and in response to the question about (if you'll forgive the deliberate paraphrasing) about who gave me the right to make judgements about the effect of verbal abuse on other people... That'd be the Hippocratic Oath, The years as a neuropsychologist and possibly the stint at drama school.
Seriously all those who have said that they have enjoyed these first two episodes, is this what you know Red Dwarf as!?!?!
I am appauled at how ignorant everyone is being! This is not Red Dwarf, but a mere cash in of cheap awful jokes.
As much as i hope to god that series 9 and 10 are going to be made, I hope some changes are made fast!
Naylor needs to establish what Red Dwarf is about and what made it comedy gold. In my eyes Red dwarf WAS a quirky, silly, cheap looking budget series but for all the right reasons. Looking back at the classic status of the early series, i cant understand where it has all gone wrong. The lack of the laughter track truly emphasises how poor the 'so-called' gags are. I say:
Bring back the laughter track,
Bring back the bunker scenes with Lister doing his best to annoy Rimmer (Me2 was a triumph of an episode)
Bring back Holly
Bring back Starbug
Bring back Red Dwarf to its origins.
Get rid of the C.G.I its not needed, Red Dwarf was never a show about looking amazing it was all about the characters. The way each episode would delight us with an insight to hear about a characters past i.e. Marooned is a perfect example. Mainly one set used throughout and possibly one of my personal best, because of the characters, the banter and the simplicity. I hope some fans agree with me, I truly admire Naylor's efforts to get this show going againg but please do not carry on with the poor writing that is clearly been satmped over back to earth!
Wow, I guess you can't please everyone. I'm a fan from way back and wasn't blown away with the first episode, but I preferred the lack of laugh track (I must be the only one ), I liked the cgi and look, the characters were reintroduced well and while the plot was thin and gappy (as per usual) the acting and jokes were solid.
The second episode blew me away. It was tight, very funny and brought back the feel of the older series. All the people worked up over the 4th wall just confuse me - they claim to have watched this show before yet find this plot too outlandish and ridiculous? Please. They've been in situations easily as strange (if not more) many times, The only time the 4th wall actually broke was when the kid referenced Dave, and so what? People are really taking this all too seriously. It's not, and never was serious! Lighten up a bit and at least give it a chance to explain itself in the conclusion before tearing it to shreds over the plotlines. The plot has always been silly and confusing.