BtE / League of Gentlemen plot cross

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by JCjunkstar, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. JCjunkstar

    JCjunkstar Second Technician

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    I've always wondered why nobody (as far as I can tell) has particularly flagged up the fact that in the League Of Gentlemen Apocalypse movie, the central plot theme was that the characters in the show discovered that they were exactly that - characters. They then set about trying to find their creators to plead for more life and keep the show going.

    When I saw BtE - the first thing I said to myself was 'this is Red Dwarf doing the LoG plot line from the movie'. I love both shows, with impunity and have always really loved the fact that both shows did the 'meta' storyline, albeit the RD version results from the despair squid. Still, methinks Rob has pinched it! haha!:lol:

    Here's a link to the intro from the LoG film if you aint seen it!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfj7eOSEzx4
     
  2. Daniel

    Daniel Console Officer

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    They didn't pinch it from League of Gentlemen at all. The concept of breaking the fourth wall of fiction (where a fictional character acknowledges they are a fictional character) has been around for a very long time, often seen wherein the characters will address the audience directly. You can find plenty of that in the theatre for instance, above and beyond a character simply talking to themself (despite other characters being on the stage).
     
  3. JCjunkstar

    JCjunkstar Second Technician

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    I agree, breaking the fourth wall is nothing new in and of itself, but that is not what I am referring to.

    Can you give me more examples of specific TV/Film Comedy shows, have had the central plot as 'our characters discover they are characters in the show and hunt down the writers to plead for more life'. The plots of BtE and LoG are that similar, and as I said, I love both shows, but am amazed no one has ever matched them up. I can't remember ANY other show or comedy film etc doing this. Or more likely, I am the only fan of LoG on the forum!

    Hmmm... on second thoughts perhaps the Truman show is a good example? :-)
     
  4. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    Actually it was mentioned quite a bit when BtE aired.

    I agree with previous poster that it wasn't a rip-off though. Not that you suggested it was, but there are strong similarities.

    I liked the BtE twist at the end though. Mind you, people accused that of being a rip-off of a previous episode too, when it was in fact meant to be a homage, what with being an anniversary show and all.

    It's curious that in three my most favourite stories/series something similar happens. (The third was a book series.) Four if you include Animal Man, although I didn't really like that run of the comic. Interestingly, all three deal with it a bit differently albeit each involve characters seeking their creators.
     
  5. JCjunkstar

    JCjunkstar Second Technician

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    I actually just googled LoG and BtE and you're right - there's plenty of reviews / press at the time suggesting BtE was ripping off the LoG plot line. E.g: This is where Dave came in, bringing the show back in 2009 with a 3-part story ‘Back to Earth’. Despite the plot seemingly copied from the recently released ‘League of Gentlemen’ movie, it was great to see the cast reunite and see that the chemistry between the actors was definitely still there.

    I just don't recall seeing the characters of a show hunting down their writers to get more life, in any other show except RD and LoG, that's all, hence my surprise at my own lack of referencing them.
    8)
     
  6. Daniel

    Daniel Console Officer

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    Search the bowels of the RDX conference, which used to contain the Back to Earth stuff, and you'll find the discussions about the links and similarities, and I daresay will find other examples.
     
  7. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Probably because that isn't what ultimately happens in Back to Earth (which in fact uses it as a smart piece of misdirection) and because the League were far from the first people to use this storytelling device.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealWorldEpisode

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RefugeeFromTVLand

    Knock yourself out.
     
  8. JCjunkstar

    JCjunkstar Second Technician

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    Thanks BF! :-)

    That's a great resource :-)

    By far the best has to be: "The Live-Action Adaptation for The Smurfs have the creatures finding the spell needed to go home in a Smurfs comic book which depicts them more as historical legends than just fictional creations."

    :-D
     
  9. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    TV Tropes is one of those websites I can literally lose hours in just jumping from trope to trope. It really illustrates just how often the same themes show up in storytelling of all forms.

    Regarding BtE and LOGA, however. I think the "pleading for more life" thing was far more valid and better suited to Red Dwarf. Here we had a show that was literally at make or break point in real life. BtE would either be its swansong or the genesis of its rebirth and Doug must have been torn over whether to just give the show an ending in what might be his last chance to do so, or try and continue onwards with the promise that the show might have life in it yet. The storyline is a natural reflection of this dilemma and the show's real life situation (and I still think there was something of Rob Grant in the Creator!).

    With LOGA however, Royston Vasey was dead, the real life creators really did want to see the back of it and so this was a more fantastical approach about the characters trying to save themselves.

    BtE ultimately used the plot as misdirection to distract the viewer and keep them wondering over whether Doug was really going to do this to the show we loved...and it worked.

    LoGA was much more straightforward "Wes Craven's New Nightmare" stuff.
     
  10. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    Oh look, it's THIS thread again.

    Metafiction goes back a very, very long time. I'm amazed at just how many people think LoG Apocalypse was the first thing ever to do it. Read more! Watch more! Doug addresses the issue on the DVD commentary, too.

    Nobody ever accuses LoG Apocalypse of ripping off - say - Grant Morrison's seminal late '80s Animal Man comics, do they?

    [​IMG]
     
  11. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    The concept is reversed in the film 'Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back'. The characters discover that the comic book characters based on them, Bluntman and Chronic, is being turned into a film and they travel to Hollywood to foil the movie being made as they think the movie will portray them as sad losers. There's plenty more meta stuff - like the characters asking who would watch a Jay and Silent Bob movie, before they turn to look down the camera. Ben Affleck turns up, playing the same character he played in the film 'Chasing Amy', and says "The film is being made by Miramax, so will probably star Ben Affleck and Matt Damon". The characters then affirm that Affleck was "da bomb" in 'Phantoms'.
     
  12. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    While I don`t think that BtE was a rip off of the League of Gentlemen movie, I do think it was bizarre that Doug decided to do such a similar idea so soon afterwards. Metafiction has indeed been around for yonks but you don`t expect to see two British comedies doing it in close succession.
     
  13. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    He did it because it was a cheap lazy thing to do. . .:x
     
  14. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Don't waste your breath. Simmy lives in his own little inflexible bubble of thought and any actual evidence just bounces right off it. He's been calling Back to Earth lazy since the outset and no matter how many times he's given facts about the show's production he continues to ignore them in favour of his own lazy generalisations about Doug Naylor and the strange motives he believes power him.
     
  15. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    It is lazy to reuse an idea from an old episode. FACT.
     
  16. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    It isn't a fact, whether you state it in silly capital letters, bold or Times New Roman and even if it was, reusing an old idea wasn't the concept being discussed when you made your remarks in this thread. You've become so used to just spewing random hatred that you don't even appear to be looking carefully at what it is you are responding to anymore.
     
  17. blaggard

    blaggard First Technician

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    I find that in 99.98% of cases, claims or assertions that are asserted with "FACT" are nothing more than than the self-important proclamation of the author.

    The same also applies to the equally pathetic "End of"
     

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