Can someone please torrent this

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by bar10dr, Apr 10, 2009.

  1. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    In the hopes of applying common sense...

    Just because someone sees the arguments against piracy as reasonable, doesn't mean they have a vested interest. Given Mr E Smeg's open hostility towards me and what I do, I doubt he's on the Dave staff!

    Having an issue with this kind of piracy doesn't make you outdated, it's not a resistance to the times. It's a resistance to the 'it's out there, thus I'm entitled to it' logic that can, yes, be damaging to popular media.

    People ask 'What are we supposed to do?' and the keeping-it-legal answer is 'wait'. Just because it's not on in your country today, doesn't mean it won't be soon. I've happily waited for House and Prison Break. But if you've seen it illegally, will you still be watching it when it arrives on TV? Will you apply the same pressure to your local PBS station? You may say you'll buy the DVD, but how can a distributor be sure there's a market for it any longer, and risk a DVD release, when the TV ratings are low because everyone saw it on torrent?

    Of course a download doesn't equal one lost viewer/sale. Of course it's not that directly harmful, not at all. But likewise, it's not harmless, either. And a refusal to see that, in my experience, is often based on a person deciding they want to do something, then figuring out the justification for doing so.

    In an ideal world, of course every show would go global in the same instant. And eventually, no doubt that's the way things will go. Which is fantastic. But for now, I'd suggest those who are getting to see the show tonight show a little understanding to those who are so desperate to see it that they'd go to illegal lengths; and equally, that those who aren't understand that there's a difference between 'not getting to see it' and 'not getting to see it this week'.

    Can we please draw a line under the insults and claims that the other side aren't seeing the truth of a situation? We all know these things live in a complex grey area, that there's not much absolute moral right or wrong. Both sides come from a basic position of wanting to support the show.

    That's the only thing that matters tonight.
     
  2. Cerianna

    Cerianna Third Technician

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    Well, of course I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for myself. For me, while having DVDs I can watch anytime is FANTASTIC, there is something even better about watching it on TV, when you know there are others watching and enjoying it at the same time you are. That's part of the drive for me wanting to see the show tonight. It's also the same drive that will still make me as rabid about seeing it locally here on PBS. Will I watch it? Of course.

    I don't know how else to explain it..it's a similar feeling to what one would get being out at a concert for your favorite artist, surrounded by people who are also fans...it's sharing in the moment, the high, however remotely (as would be the case with the Red Dwarf showing tonight). Does that make any sense?
     
  3. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    I think that's a very sensible post
     
  4. bar10dr

    bar10dr Third Technician

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    Good post.
     
  5. Maltheus

    Maltheus Skutter

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    How are ratings in the UK judged?

    In the US, Nielsen is the premier company for reporting ratings and frankly, unless you got one of their boxes recording what you are watching, it doesn't matter.
     
  6. mark0079

    mark0079 Skutter

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    Yes This Will Be Torrent'd I will be uploading on www.mininova.com type Red Dwarf Back To Earth.

    All this argument about copywrite and if its right or wrong is nonsence im a fan, i have the internet, i can download things its that simple if i can download it then i will so to all fans I give to you ENJOY!!!!

    bye the way if there is anyone from the RED DWARF team reading this then bring back the live audience it makes it better to watch.
     
  7. bar10dr

    bar10dr Third Technician

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    I understand what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree.
    I found Red Dwarf on the internet a long time ago, I downloaded the first episodes and was hooked from there on out.

    Now I own all the DVD's and have also hooked many of my friends with similar humor to the show, some of those have also gotten the DVDs, my first 'freebe' generated interest and money, I bet some of my friends have passed the torch on to other of their friends as well.

    As for the IP belongs to them to do as with they want argument, in theory yes, but its like burying your head in the sand and refusing to see what's going on around you, theoretically you're 100% right, but it's just not how the world works now, and its not going to change.

    Ignoring the fact that more and more people torrent their shows is not helpful to the industry, in stead we should act as a aggregate to help push the industry into embracing the new technology and earn new money off it instead of helping them refusing to see things as they are.

    I can understand why it's scary to them, suddenly the people are in charge in stead of the various channels, viewer ratings are currently calculated based on statistics not actual views, programs are priced based on popularity, this means they've got to make programs that people actually are interested in, its a paradigm change that puts the control to the consumer instead of the tv providers.

    But, it also puts the IP in the makers hands, now the technology is here for them to skip the middle man and broadcast directly to the customer if they so want, suddenly shows like Red Dwarf have the chance to reach a huge populace, not dependent on broadcasters to pick it up in order to make money of it.

    The technology is here, all they have to do is to embrace it with all they have before the idea of free entertainment gets imprinted in the populous so hard they can't change it.

    Also, torrented shows, as previously mentioned have pretty awful quality, sound and image is sub-par to broadcasts and dvd's, its more like a preview than anything else.

    And the drug thing, I don't really think that's a good comparison.
    Drugs are illegal because drugs are bad for humans, it makes you chemically/biologically dependent to the point where you will do anything to gain it, only organized crime syndicates sells it because making drugs legal is not an option.

    Piracy on the other hand is illegal because it supposedly reduces the income for the owners, the material itself is not illegal (drugs are), if the industry embraced the technology so people had a chance to pay for it, the problem would cease to exist, but the longer they wait to embrace it, the more people get used to free entertainment..

    When I was young, I didn't have much money to spend, so I pirated, now I have a good job and a good income, and I pay for my entertainment as long as it's possible for me to do so. So my bad habits when I was young did not cost them any money, because I had other purchasing priorities, now that I can afford it, I gladly pay, I think this is the same for the majority of people.

    So yes, what you say is theoretically right, but it does not reflect reality, and reality is what counts.
     
  8. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    You just summed up a lot of my feelings, right down to the drugs analogy. This is why I said I didn't condone to uploading of material but I didn't demonise everyone who might watch it.
     
  9. matgrowcott

    matgrowcott Skutter

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    I am not trying to give a general judgement on the morality behind torrenting and such. This is just my view on why it happens.

    It's obvious in this case, with Red Dwarf, why it will be happening across the globe. People who cannot see it will jump at the chance to, simple as that. Perhaps it would have been a smart idea to provide the episode legally (as someone has already said) through Itunes or even through this website. People WOULD have paid for it. I'm not sure of the logistics behind that, so it may be more difficult than it sounds.

    Perhaps even Dave could have streamed from their website after?

    On a much larger scale though: People always look for the best value way of doing things. Slap bang in a global recession, the price of a trip to the cinema rising and the quality of films generally lowering why would people spend £40 on going out for 4 or 5 people (not counting popcorn etc) to watch a sub-par film?

    It's not always the case. Some people are born to take this easy way out and I know people who have not bought a film or cd for 10 years and yet boast a huge collection.

    When big films make millions upon millions of dollars worth of profit for a company, not counting eventual dvd sales, it is hard for the general consumer to see that pirating IS a problem. For someone whom a trip to the cinema is a rare treat, the amount of money made is staggering and it is hard to empathise with the people you see in the nice suits and big cars saying "but you're taking our money :-("
     
  10. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    Do you have any idea how few films actually go into profit? It's like one movie in ten or something. even films you consider successful may never have gone into profit.

    The limos and suits you see are execs and stars - they get paid huge. But the crew don't. And the studio takes a risk every time it doles out their money in the hopes of attracting an audience. The stars and major execs may have dosh, but that doesn't make the film itself financially secure.
     
  11. robjungle

    robjungle Third Technician

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    What planet do some of you live on? First of all, (in the UK anyway), there´s nothing criminal whatsoever about downloading Red Dwarf or any other TV program, film, computer game or application. "They" just say there is in the occasional newspaper article or "news" piece to try and stop people doing it. America´s a different story, but then as any European who´s ever been to the US knows, it really isn´t the land of the free, more the land of the poorly educated and enslaved!

    Secondly, there´s nothing morally wrong with downloading stuff either! Although I don´t agree with the chumps who seem to think downloading a film means it will be of poor quality (I´ve got loads of films in 1080 HD on my computer, just cos you don´t know how to do something doesn´t mean it can´t be done!), nothing beats an original. I´ve been buying DVDs since I was a kid, I´ve got hundreds if not thousands. But why would I buy a DVD that I might not like?! That´s ridiculous! The Anti-Piracy advert on DVDs (which incidentally, only people who have paid for a genuine DVD have to sit through, unlike "pirates"), screams, "You wouldn´t steal a car!"...no, but I wouldn´t buy a car that I hadn´t seen, driven and maybe even had checked out by a mechanic. Why should digital media be any different? With music it isn´t. Even if you don´t download music for free, you hear it on the Radio or MTV before buying it. No one walks into HMV and picks a CD out at random.

    Finally, as a Heroin enthusiast, jmc2000 I can categorically inform you that downloading Red Dwarf is nothing like drugs.:lol:

    P.S. I was a little bit disappointed with tonight’s episode. It should have had a laughter track and it didn´t seem like they explained how they got from the last episode of RD8 to this...although I did miss a couple of minutes of the beginning.

    P.P.S. If you aren´t a member of a proper torrent site you can download Episode 1 from Mininova.org

    http://www.mininova.org/search/?search=red+dwarf&cat=0

    :evil:
     
  12. tippy922

    tippy922 Third Technician

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    AARRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This isn't FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For GOD'S SAKE!!!! People in the UK pay a FEE to have TV......OH MY GAWD! I am losing my mind.
    As a member of American Actors Equity Association, may I tell you that *I* and my brethren and our brothers overseas see ANY INTERNET DOWNLOADS as THEFT!!!
    Jeezy-Creezy!
    This stuff isn't free no matter how much you wanna SEE it or WHERE you LIVE!!!!!
    WAIT. PATIENTLY. For your local, LEGAL, outlets to get the materials and then BUY THEM.
    If you think the Brits get these shows FREE on TV then you do NOT know how it works.
    Ever hear of TAXES?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
    Shut up. Watch 1-8 on DVD. And WAIT like a civilized human......
    I think my nose is bleeding now.....:evil:
     
  13. robjungle

    robjungle Third Technician

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    If you re-read my post as quoted by your good self, you´ll see I used the word "some". Why exactly do you think your opinion is more valid than mine or anybody elses?
     
  14. roebeet

    roebeet Third Technician

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    x2 on that! They'd have my money if they offered it. But there is no way to get this, right now (I'm in the US).
     
  15. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    Actually, I'm not defending uploading shows, but I'm pretty sure we do get these shows for free. We have a licence fee in the UK but that's only for BBC shows and Red Dwarf is now on Dave which makes money from advertising (hence why Red Dwarf now has adverts and is a few minutes shorter) I've said all I have to say about downloading elsewhere but I'm a pedantic sod so I thought I'd reply to this, not trying to piss you off mate. :-D
     
  16. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    Robjungle, meet 'the law', 'the law', meet Robjungle. He's apparently never heard of you, but don't hold that against him.

    Rob, on this UK part of the planet, ripping off software, films and shows you don't pay for or aren't otherwise entitled to IS illegal. It's copyright theft. That's why FACT make those adverts explaining that exact point. That you get away with it isn't the same as it being permitted.
     
  17. tippy922

    tippy922 Third Technician

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    Robjungle, meet 'the law', 'the law', meet Robjungle. He's apparently never heard of you, but don't hold that against him.

    Rob, on this UK part of the planet, ripping off software, films and shows you don't pay for or aren't otherwise entitled to IS illegal. It's copyright theft. That's why FACT make those adverts explaining that exact point. That you get away with it isn't the same as it being permitted.

    Ah. Reason.
     
  18. tippy922

    tippy922 Third Technician

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    Then you do NOT understand or get it it at ALL! Jeez. It's ONE way but NOT the OTHER. NO cake and eat it. It IS (IZ) BLACK & WHITE!!!
     
  19. tippy922

    tippy922 Third Technician

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    Wrong. Arse. Wait.:?
     
  20. robjungle

    robjungle Third Technician

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    Actually Andrew, I am very well aquainted with "the law" from a variety of perspectives. In the UK, we have Criminal Law and Civil Law. In my post I said that there is nothing "criminal" about downloading, which is perfectly true.

    Also, I could argue that the fact that I and EVERYBODY else who does it in the UK "get away with it" by definition makes it exactly the same as it being permitted. But I´m bored of this now so I won´t bother. I´m going to watch my downloaded copy of the episode in question...whilst smoking heroin as it happens, jmc2000!

    Goodnight suckers. Oh yeah and Keith...you need to have some sex mate. Seriously.
     

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