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Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by talkie3000, Nov 18, 2012.
i think its safe to say in red dwarf case accents ain't a clever way to do comedy
Sorry, but are you genuinely this naive? Can you honestly not see the distinction between a white man doing a stereotypical "chinaman" voice and a white man (or indeed a man of any race) doing a Yorkshire accent? Do you really struggle to see what old ghosts the former resurrects...especially in British comedy? Can you really have such a misunderstanding of the difference between race and accents as to think the two are "the same"? Do you really lack the historical knowledge of British imperialism or the cruel way that Asians have been mocked and stereotyped in British comedy over the years? I'm sure Doug Naylor doesn't as the true joke of Taiwan Tony relies on this knowledge. The worry of myself and others was based on how many people seemed to be missing this.
Comparing this to someone doing a Yorkshire accent makes me think that the answer to all of the above must be 'yes' and I'm really struggling to believe that this can be true. To be honest I had my suspicions during the original debate that this might be the case for more than one person but, personally speaking, I do find it surprising and strange that so many people seem so unaware of the nub of the issue and appear to have missed the point of both the joke and the subsequent backlash.
What about a Taiwanese man doing a Yorkshire accent? I wouldn't have a problem with that!
Neither would a Taiwanese man who happened to live in the Yorkshire area.
Do you see?
Well, on a lighter note, another thing I would like to see in series XI is a return of Philip Labley as Young Rimmer. The casting for that roll was pretty much perfect in my view. Not only does Philip manage to get all the Rimmer mannerisms down correctly, but he's a great likeness to the young Chris Barrie too. He's already become one of my favourite guest stars in (any) Red Dwarf.
I enjoyed that entire flash back scene muchly, from seeing the initial exterior shot of the Geodesic Domes, right through to the quick transition back to the present moment with Rimmer back on the ship. And I loved how well it all interconnected via the later call back scene with Rimmer (during his great 'plan' speech). Put simply I personally feel this to be classic Dwarf and worthy of some of the best stuff ever done in the show over the years.
So yeah I'd love to see him used again in a similar vain, but with a little more screen time (two, possibly three flashback scenes). Maybe these young Rimmer flash back scenes could fit into the previously mentioned episode idea featuring the botanic gardens..
eg; Whilst strolling the grounds of the ship's gardens Rimmer is getting all contemplative about his biological father and his upbringing. We then flash back to young Rimmer (Philip Labley) in the garden he grew in as a kid. To which at some point we briefly meet "Dungo". And as such certain previously misted-over memories slowly start coming back for old Rimmsie back on the RD ship...hmm, I think I may feel a bit of unplanned fanfic coming on, that would be a first for me. May give it a go.
On a completely separate and much more RD fan geeky note, I'd also love to see Craig wearing his red London Jets t-shirt as Lister once more....for then and only then will my life be complete.
Philip Labey has to be in XI!!
(don't know how popular this idea would be, and I've not read the novel the character was in, but how about him appearing as Michael McGruder?)
Skip to the last sentence of the first paragraph!!!!!!!!!
Thanks to omnomnominous (don't know if you're name's different here than on tumblr) for the link!!!
Excellent news indeed
Freeborn - totally agree on the role of young Rimmer, the person playing him in RDX did play him really well and fit between the younger Rimmer we've seen a few times and the current one.
Even though it's regarded as the weakest episode of RDX, I think I'd like to see another "Dear Dave" -esque episode, set only on the ship and dealing with their everyday lives. I think it was brave of Doug to try Dear Dave, an episode format not seen, really, since series 2 (or perhaps even 1) where the crew don't really have anywhere to go, any life-threatening situation to overcome, any big bads to fight and nothing pressing to do.
However, as good as The Beginning was (not the best of the series though in my opinion) I don't want to see another "big finale" next time as I think it'd probably build expectations. Also, don't fancy any multi-parters.
Freeborn and Bedfordfalls - you're right, I guess I was over-defending TT without thinking it's something that doesn't need defending - he is MEANT to be offensive, but not by much. I simply thought "other comedies get away with worse, why can't TT be excused" where TT isn't meant to be excused because what he's doing is the joke itself. TT could probably be best summed up as "offensive, but not by much".
Someone else in another topic thought of resurrecting Mr Flibble, comparing the manic glove-puppet to Dwayne Dibbley and Ace, which I would NOT want. Mr Flibble was perfect in his acting debut (should've won an Oscar) and I don't want well-loved guest characters trotted out at every moment in a vain attempt at applause and one-liners. An episode of Red Dwarf where Ace has been captured by Mr Flibble, and Dwayne must work with Hogey and a tamed Polymorph to rescue him, would probably be the worst episode ever. May as well have Kryten water-skiing over a shark whilst we're at it.
No more surprise reveals that change a character's back story please. We've had Lister turning out to be his own dad in Ouroborous*, and in the most recent series Rimmer's dad really being the gardener and his half brother (Well, presumably it's his half brother, maybe he was fathered by the gardener too) also really being a vending machine technician rather than a test-pilot or ship's captain.
No more trips back to earth, the more times they find a way to return to earth, even if it's at some point in the past, the more it raises the question of why they don't just stay there.
Please be a bit more careful with the writing throughout, I know it's a sitcom, I know it shouldn't be taken too seriously, I'm willing to go with suspension of disbelief to a degree as far as continuity, plot holes and errors go, but that can only go so far. Most of RDX was OK in this regard but Lemons had too many simple mistakes and, frustratingly, a lot of them could have been sorted out with equally simple changes. Now, I've gathered from what Bedfordfalls has said elsewhere on here that Doug and his team were really up against it as far as production issues went with RDX so please don't take this as too serious a criticism.
Lastly, just go a bit easier with the ancillary characters. Sometimes less is more.
Edit: * I know I said lastly above, but... I personally would like to see the "Lister is his own dad" thing dropped. Not retconned out, I'm really not a fan of retcons, but I'd be content to just have it quietly forgotten about and not mentioned again.
doug probably thinks he is giving the Fans cool unexpected surprises by changing in some way what fans thought they knew but overall its getting abit silly now
The strange thing for me was that Doug made such a big deal pre-series X about how introducing the nine year gap allowed for the potential exploration of all new backstory....yet he then completely ignored this opportunity and opted to focus almost entirely on playing with existing backstory.
I think I'm the only one who doesn't mind the Ouroboros storyline :shock:
Well, what's not to like about it? I mean, if you think through the complete ramifications of this within the Red Dwarf TV series continuity you've got a guy that sleeps with and lusts after his own mother (and continues to lust after her despite knowing this) and as a convoluted result of that relationship becomes his own father and if you continue to follow that through as a result of a one night stand with a parallel version of himself (Which is bad enough in it's own right, but if you also follow that through, if he's his own father in our reality then parallel Lister is also her own mother, meaning that he's slept with two women both of who were effectively his mother) they become father, grandfather, brother*, mother, grandmother and sister* to the twin boys he gave birth to and which she fathered.....
At the risk of going a bit Helen Lovejoy about it, Wont somebody please think of the children!
I doubt even Jeremy Kyle would touch the DNA test on the truly horrifying incestuous inbreeding that eventually resulted in Jim and Bexley, in fact I reckon Oedipus himself would run screaming from that mess. The basic idea at the heart of it is pretty horrifying, the extended version is even worse.
* As he's his own father then any other sons he fathers are also at least his half brothers, as the other half of Jim and Bexley are his female opposite, they're basically his brothers, and as he's his own son that also makes parallel Lister basically his sister and their half sister too... This is a nightmarish combination which is just horrible on every conceivable level.
For me it's not so much the storyline that was bad but rather pretty much everything else. Ed Bye's direction seemed really off, the humour was some of the weakest (outside if series VIII) and whatever the hell was going on with Kryten and his android menopause. This was also the first episode to mostly not have Rimmer in it, infact the one scene with him only seems to remind you of what the show is now missing. I can see why the episode is not all that well liked.
Obviously I'm not promoting incest or anything, lol!
I think the storyline would have worked better had they maintained the original storyline where Lister and Kochanski had never been together.
I'd actually like the story expanded on, and maybe there being something even weirder in his DNA that means that because his DNA's identical to his dad's that maybe he's not taken anything from her DNA like he's sort of a clone or something and that she was only required to 'get things started'? I dunno.
I didn't think you were for a second.
I definitely agree with this.
...but not this. I just think the whole thing would be better off left, I can't imagine expanding this would improve it.
i think because series 1 to 6 has had some clever well written episodes doug is now trying way to hard to write clever episodes to which they become very flawed
Please do a Cat episode, there are hardly any that focus on him as a character and most recent episodes have him popping up to say a funny like or pull a funny face then off again. Explore the Cat race, encounter some members who are still alive etc. The only big Cat episode we ever got was Waiting For God in Series 1. Danny deserved better than that.
Yes Doug needs to do cat race episode long overdue. Cloister the god turns up at last to the cat race, we see there ship too.
Series x was a improvemnt on 7 and 8, but xi can be better. Get the Starbug model and it iconic cockpit back, and I really missed those great shot of the starbug leaving red dwarf and coming back to it. And please bring the bunk room scenes back Doug like it used to be Rimmer and Listy in bed talking crap love those back card moments. Keep the amazing Red Dwarf Model though looked amazing.
I miss Starbug! We need the Starbug cockpit back, and for it to be as close to the classic one as possible!
And can we get a different drive room set? I didn't really like X's
And we definitely need a cat race episode