Does anyone really care what Norman thinks?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Ant E, Apr 22, 2009.

  1. Ant E

    Ant E Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Personally, I think he has let both the fans and crew of Red Dwarf down big time. I wonder if he would be so critical of it if he had been in it... and got paid!!! I think not.

    Sad old man really.
     
  2. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I tend to have a bit of sympathy with Norman. Yes I think he's thrown the rattle out of the pram but I guess for him to think Red Dwarf was coming back was really exciting for him and he obviously feels a bit let down that he wasn't in it.
    Let's face it other than Red Dwarf he isn't known for much outside of stand up comedy. I just think about how I'd feel if I was told I was going to be in Red Dwarf, perhaps told all my freinds and family and then got cut at the last minute (by email)...Actually I'd probably feel like that fan who they cut out of the street scene!
    At least that guy will probably make the DVD wheras Norm won't.

    I do honestly wonder whether the cast and Doug really take his comments seriously though. If you listen to the first series commentary DJJ makes a few references to his temerement and how he'll dwell on something and then kick off three years later.

    Either way I certainly don't hate Norman for his comments or wish him any ill.

    On an unrelated note, is that Norman's house they always film him in for interviews?
     
  3. steven87gill

    steven87gill Second Technician

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    This is probably the best post on this subject, as has been said before, i reckon Norman was this angry when he ended up not appearing in RD III, but thanks to my space ect. We now see the whole row in full view.

    Robert Llewellyn commented about this on his Twitter page a few days ago, he seemed OK about it. He called Norm a ''Lovely Old Grump'' Good Description :-)
     
  4. peas_and_korn

    peas_and_korn First Technician

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    Norm left in series 3 because he didn't want to go to rehearsal.
     
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  5. hubbard

    hubbard Deck Sergeant

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    I think Norm is great and should be in RD for sure, I preferred him to Hattie and was disappointed when he didnt return for BTE (another reason I didnt like the new specials). Series 2 was awesome with Norm as Holly, he should have been in it all the way through.

    Bring back Norm :-)
     
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  6. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    I care about what Norman thinks! And yes befordfalls, your post is brilliant. Rarely does another post encapsualte so well what my thoughts on something are.
     
  7. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    Was there a need to create a new thread for a subject that we were discussing here?
     
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  8. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    For organizational reasons i'd be inclined to agree with you Bluey. But that other thread has spiraled so off-topic (in my opinion), that this one does good in re-focusing the actual issue (as opposed to other cast members' legal affairs).
     
  9. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    I do have some sympathy for Norm actually. I think the only reason he has such bitterness about certain things is because he loved Red Dwarf so much, and being in it. Hattie has aquitted herself with much more dignity, even though she was fired from the show, and when Holly was brought back, it was Norman who was recalled, not her. From listening to the series 2 commentaries, there is definitely a sense of sadness on Norm's part. And it does sound like he wishes things could have been sorted out so he could have remained in it. The things he has reportedly said about Craig and Danny if true, were a bit out of order. I'm sure if he did say that stuff, it was just a knee jerk reaction to what he feels is shoddy treatment towards him. Though on the series 2 commentary, there is a noticeable air of tension between Norm and Danny, so maybe there was a problem already there. I love Norman as Holly, and prefer to him to Hattie. (Although she did a great job in replacing him) I'm certainly not condoning everything Norm has said in reference to Red Dwarf, but I do have a degree of sympathy for him, and I don't hold the level of animosity towards him that a great deal of RD fans seem to. He is a silly, bitter old man, I dont think there is any doubt about that! lol But as Holly at least, he will always hold a place in my affections. :-)
     
  10. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    Nar, I don't think so. I think Danny was just pulling his leg. I don't think there was any malice there. Norman even turned up to support Danny at the court rigamarole recently.
     
  11. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    That was what I thought too. lol

    It's just with the recent stuff Norm was meant to have said about Danny and Craig, I kind've thought maybe that put a new slant on their banter in the commentaries. I didnt know that either about Norm supporting Danny at court.
     
  12. Ant E

    Ant E Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Maybe WE wanted a different discussion! How rude. Does the world revolve around you Bluey?
     
  13. jacksmith

    jacksmith Catering Officer

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    No, Bluey was doing the right thing by linking you to a thread of similar context and contents, so that the conferences don't get clogged up with 17 topics on slightly different but ultimately the same topic.
     
  14. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    Yeah Jack, but like I said that OTHER post had spiralled off-topic. Just like this one is in danger of doing by turning into a "to post or reply" discussion. But if you want MY 2 cents on that, here it is: That other post got so off-topic that I didn't care to post on it. The original poster of this thread (AntiEverything) asked a simple question which moved me to respond. How the smeg am I supposed to respond to "Yeah Norman shot his mouth off about RD, but Danny and Craig had gotten into legal troubles..." What are we going to turn this into, a finger-pointing game? Seems a bit immature and irrelevent.

    And ANTIeverything makes a good point by more or less saying, we want to have OUR discussion over here, because your discussion now officially sucks :-P
     
  15. jacksmith

    jacksmith Catering Officer

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    Anyway fair enough, but the principle stands. Also it wasn't a personal attack on you. Perhaps i shouldn't have kept your quote in there. I just find the comment against Bluey seemed a bit...Childish? Nah, i dunno. Anyway oftopic should this be moved to "stars of Red Dwarf"? or because the controversy was centred around Norman's BTE views it stays here?
     
  16. Pete78

    Pete78 Third Technician

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    Bizarre post. Contextualising an extreme overreaction with examples of other reactions is not finger-pointing. Your summary of the argument in the other thread ("Yeah Norman shot his mouth off about RD, but Danny and Craig had gotten into legal troubles...") reveals that you don't understand the thread. It wasn't about equivalence - it was about context.
     
  17. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    Sorry for the confusion, Pete. When I was talking about finger-pointing I wasn't referring to users of this board. I was referring to the cast members. It seemed to me that the people that were defending Norman (or trying to) did so by "pointing their fingers" at the other cast members (such as Craig or Danny) and saying "But Danny got in trouble with the law and we aren't ticked off at him. We shouldn't be mad at Norman either." While I agree with the sentiment (that we shouldn't be mad at Norman), the argument doesn't make much sense.

    The truth of the matter is some people ARE going to be upset with Norman because they feel he has insulted Red Dwarf and GNP. These same people are NOT going to be upset with Danny's legal woes because they were completely irrelevant to Red Dwarf and therefore not as devisive. It's like comparing apples to oranges. So as far as CONTEXT go, that is precisely what I am talking about. Contextually speaking, Danny's legal woes had nothing to do with Red Dwarf, save for the fact that he is an actor on the show. Norman's remarks had everything to do with Red Dwarf. So why the smeg are the two being compared?

    Smeg. We've now turned this thread into the turd the other one is.

    Oh and Jack, I didn't interpret anything you said as an attack, personal or otherwise. So no worries :-)
     
  18. Rageofangels

    Rageofangels First Technician

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    Ideally I'd want Norman back! Yes, he's being annoying and silly (imo) but he still is part of the original RD cast, and I would love to see him back in a new series. People always say stupid stuff from time to time, so I think it would be wise to just ignore what he's said and see if he would like to be in a new series. If he would then great. If not then that's his decision and GNP can look elsewhere for someone who's got a similar deadpan look. That's why I thought Bill Bailey would be good, though there must be other candidates out there who can also fill Holly's shoes.

    All in all I'm just dead happy that RD is back on the screen, and hopefully on the way to more series.

    RAGE
     
  19. Pete78

    Pete78 Third Technician

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    ? I mean just ??
    Threatening people with a samurai sword doesn't involve Red Dwarf, so you feel no moral reaction to someone acting in this way?! If it had something to do with Red Dwarf, THAT would be the clincher?! (And I acknowledge that Danny was cleared on appeal. But no one knew that would happen). You're arguing that wrongdoings which don't relate to Red Dwarf are not subject to moral scrutiny?! Or that moral responses are subject to bizarre and ludicrous personal variations? That's of no consequence. It doesn't alter the moral world. Can we agree that a wrongdoing is wrong?!
    If you accept that events which don't relate to Red Dwarf are subject to moral scrutiny, it's logical to highlight the inconsistency of two reactions (especially when Norman Lovett endures character assassination for a few remarks after serious crimes, counts of battery produce no character assassination). Obviously, it's an overreaction. This is why the comparison is relevant.
     
  20. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    Well, put THAT way, I can finally see the point. And believe me, I'll be the first one to say, "Lay off Norman, people." But that's because I think everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and when Norman voiced his, he was entitled to do so. I am still dubious about the effectiveness of the basic argument, however. I mean Danny and Craig's respective legal woes didn't ruffle any feathers in the Red Dwarf fan community because they weren't criticizing anything Dwarf related.

    But when it comes down to brass tacks, NONE of the RD actors should endure character assassination. I'm certainly not arguing that anyone should.

    Let's do a completely unrelated analogy. HYPOTHETICAL: Let's say there's a Naked Gun message board. For the life of me, I couldn't say whether one exists out there or not. But let's just say that recently Leslie Neilson went public saying how Naked Gun sucked, they didn't pay him, the writing was piss-poor and etc, etc. Understandably there would be some rather irked fans on the Naked Gun message board. Some might overreact and say things like "to hell with Leslie Neilson, etc, etc". But then another board user says, "Wait a minute, how come you guys are being so harsh on Leslie Neilson? I mean OJ Simpson was arrested on murder charges...remember THAT?"

    I think the hypothetical speaks for itself.
     

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