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Dwarf moments that make you morally uncomfortable

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by jmc2000, Jul 5, 2017.

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  1. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    I've posted this here, with a prefix, in case people want to vent their moral outrage about anything from RDXI (I can think of at least one ethical controversy from that series!).

    This was inspired by @Nikki the Great's post here. The question is: have you ever had a moral problem with a moment in Red Dwarf? What was it?

    Obviously, villains will do immoral things - I don't think it was very nice to wipe people from history, for instance - and Cat has been amoral on occasion. But you might object to something the heroes did, or the way the writers handled something.

    This is an odd thread for me to start because I'm struggling to think of one. But I saw Nikki's post in the other thread and thought it would be a good discussion.

    Actually, here's one: I don't like Arlene Rimmer's relish when she says "I hope you get pregnant, you cheap little tart." It's a pretty horrible sentiment. I guess you could argue that it holds up a mirror to sexism, but it feels like there's too much laughter at Lister's predicament - "ha ha ha, maybe he is, what larks" - for that to be the focus of the scene. Rimmer's crowing is possibly in-character, but pulls the emphasis back towards unpleasantness, IMO.
     
    jmc2000, Jul 5, 2017
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  2. Asclepius

    Asclepius Console Officer

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    In Beyond a Joke Lister says something like: "There are more black heads, than in staffroom of fried chicken franchise." It' racist and kind of 'undwarfy' joke, when Afroamerican is member of the crew. I guess that this line was written by Bobby.
     
    Asclepius, Jul 5, 2017
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  3. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    There are no Americans in the crew, afro or otherwise. But that joke is really awkward. I'm don't object to jokes about race in principle, after all we've all got one. But it had better be worth it. And for me, making the observation that black people like fried chicken isn't worth it. Maybe it's true that black people statistically like fried chicken for some reason, but the observation seems trite. It almost seems like you're supposed to laugh because it's a "naughty" observation, but you've been given permission to laugh because it's a black person saying it and it's on tv.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century, Jul 5, 2017
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  4. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    @jmc2000 What was the ethical controversy in XI?
     
    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century, Jul 5, 2017
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  5. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    ...I completely missed that, and hope that's not what it meant?

    "Blackheads" also means a blocked pore (like a kind of "zit") so I assumed the allusion was to adolescence and grease. A combination you might find in the staff room of a KFC.

    I'm aware, now, of the racial stereotype, but don't know if it was a widespread one in the UK - back in the Nineties at least (I only first heard of it in my late twenties). If that's what it means, it would certainly be a weird line for a white writer to give a mixed race actor.

    I'm going to give the script the benefit of the doubt, here, because I believe it's ambiguous, and think the "greasy blackheads" interpretation is more in keeping with the tone of the show.
     
    jmc2000, Jul 5, 2017
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  6. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    Rimmer's actions at the start of Officer Rimmer.
     
    jmc2000, Jul 5, 2017
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  7. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Oh, that. I thought you were talking about offending an identity group, not a trifling bit of attempted murder.
     
    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century, Jul 5, 2017
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  8. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    This thread is shaping up to be amazing!! What bit was that?!
     
    jmc2000, Jul 5, 2017
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  9. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    I thought you were talking about Rimmer shooting the torpedo at the bio-printed captain?
     
    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century, Jul 5, 2017
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  10. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    I was :-) - I meant, which bit was "offending an identity group"?
     
    jmc2000, Jul 5, 2017
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  11. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    CAT Maybe worth testing it with one of his spare heads?
    LISTER *What* spare heads...
    KOCHANSKI We've blown them all out!
    LISTER Look at it - have you ever seen so many blackheads outside the staffroom of a fried chicken franchise?
    KOCHANSKI We've managed to save his RAM chips, so at least we've got his personality on disk, but, that's about it...
    CAT Life without a head... that's gonna put a real crimp on his lifestyle. I mean, what can you do without a head?

    In context I'm not sure what the line means. It's about Kryten's spare heads blowing up. It sounds like it could mean heads-that-are-black. Would need to reply the scene.
     
    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century, Jul 5, 2017
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  12. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    I just meant about things being sexist or racist or classist or some other ist.
     
    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century, Jul 5, 2017
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  13. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Rimmer's actions didn't bother me. It's Rimmer, he's a quasi-villian. And actually, he believed he had to do it because the captain was blowing up anyway and he had to protect the crew.
     
    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century, Jul 5, 2017
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  14. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    You know, the fact that "blackheads" is one word makes me think it is zits.

    I appreciate that the charred mech parts are literally "black heads" - but I think heads-that-are-black → blackheads → KFC staff with bad skin is what makes it witty wordplay, rather than a straight-forward comparison.

    Whether it's one word or two... if it were the latter, surely he would have said "black faces"? You'd never say, "If there isn't a diversity problem in this workplace, why are there so few black heads in the staff photo?" EDIT: but you could plausibly say, "If this workplace is actually a KFC franchise, why are there so few blackheads," etc. - referring to greasy food and the skincare implications.
     
    jmc2000, Jul 5, 2017
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  15. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    Ah, sorry - gotcha. I thought you had a particular one in mind from XI.

    PC objections are very welcome, but so too are examples of ethically dubious actions, if people feel they are disappointing or out-of-character.
     
    jmc2000, Jul 5, 2017
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  16. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    I thought that too about blackheads being one word, but I don't know if that came from an official script, I think it was a fan transcription.
     
    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century, Jul 5, 2017
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  17. Pinny

    Pinny Third Technician

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    I always took it to be a reference to spotty teenage skin too.
     
    Pinny, Jul 5, 2017
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  18. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Yeah, I think that makes the most sense in context. Blackheads because there's grease in the air, not because black people like fried chicken. It's staffroom, too. I'm not sure there's a stereotype that black people particularly work in fried chicken franchises.
     
    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century, Jul 5, 2017
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  19. Pinny

    Pinny Third Technician

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    This is probably not what you were going for but I always feel a bit uncomfortable being asked to laugh at some of the bullying Rimmer was victim to at school and generally I do laugh because Chris's delivery is so good.
    I know Rimmer is the love to hate him character, I know that he could easily be a bully himself, and I know it's exaggerated for comic effect but in real life bullying is no laughing matter and I do feel at odds with myself for laughing at his plight.
     
    Pinny, Jul 5, 2017
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  20. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    In Give & Take they lied to Cat to get his kidney, that was dubious.
     
    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century, Jul 5, 2017
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