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Discussion in 'RED DWARF XI / XII' started by Seb, Sep 13, 2016.
Were we watching the same episode??!
I wondered what an electric ignition was doing on a car which should have been steam powered in a world where electric toasters were banned for being too high tech. But I liked the gags about hot-wiring buses at age nine.
I must have been moving in some very seedy online science forums in the last couple of years, but the 'double-slit' mention made me think, 'that old chestnut!' It seems a bit old hat to make jokes about the double-slit experiment sounding a bit dirty. Might as well be talking about Mrs Slocombe's pussy. I still think they overdid the 'tart with science knowledge' gag by a long way. It felt as though half the episode was taken up with it. Yeah, I get we slightly don't expect a provocatively dressed woman with a Brooklyn(?) accent in an early twentieth century American club to reel off scientific theories and formulae, but is it really that funny? Is it really that much of a shock to a modern audience?
Just had my second watch and while I still don't like the series VII like coda. I found that what I already rated as a solid series 6 style episode got better with a rewatch. On first watch, everything happens so fast that there is barely time for the viewer to breathe but once you are more familiar with the arc of the episode then it's much easier to enjoy its humour, which was familiar yet fun.
On second watch I'd say that, coda aside, the only thing that began to slip into series VIII like parody was the "hostage negotiation" talk with Lister and Rimmer. This was technically a good joke that could have been used to better effect in a slower scene from a quieter episode that didn't involve such active peril for the crew. I also groaned internally at the ladish/sci-fi convention "Wa-hey" noise from the audience for Cat's tap-dance...the same annoying sound that slightly ruined the final joke of 'The beginning'. It's a reaction that seems to be more for Danny than for his character and was one of the few instances where I'd be happy to endorse some sound editing of the audience. I will say that if it's any indication of his character in XI then I'm pleased that Cat seems to have returned to what made him such a good character originally, delivering stinging snappy one-liners.
For such a tightly paced episode I must give credit to Doug Naylor for trying his hardest to fit genuine reasoning into every decision made by the crew. It's often been an area of criticism in his solo writing of Dwarf and yet I found all of the possible problems that time travel episodes of Dwarf normally throw up were given punchy yet believable explanations. It's a little thing but it makes an episode so much more compact when you don't have a handful of continuity problems to deal with at the end.
As for the coda I was thinking about how it could have been done in another way that was a bit less master/slave. How about Lister and Cat having a game of pool (using the CoC) to keep the table level. The same speech by Lister as he pots balls and Kryten fusses around them chalking cues etc. The same intent of Lister being not so self-aware only without the nauseating image of Kryten dressing and brushing his teeth for him.
One last thing: The Dwarfers now have the carbon rod, Hoguey's star map and the casket of Chronos. Are all these things merely mcguffins or is Doug working on a way to get home? :shock:
I thought it was interesting how the script tried to address why Lister didn't just stay on Earth, by introducing the peril to Rimmer and Kryten.
Doing that in this episode gives some reassurance that Lister does want to get back to Earth, and imply there's always been a reason why he couldn't in the past - even if the reason wasn't stated explicitly on previous occasions (for instance, we know that the time drive can return to Earth - including Lister's own lifetime at the end of Ouroboros - so can supply our own theories for why they never stayed there).
Having said which... in Twentica, why couldn't they use the same gizmo to return to another point in Earth's timeline? Or just fly into space to avoid the EMP, and land when it had finished? Maybe the turbulence meant they had to escape through the time tunnel, back to where they came from... but then, why not come back again?
Not deal-breakers for me - just curious as to what examples you'd give, because I thought it was more of a Backwards-style story (i.e., fun, but not exactly watertight).
I doubt the characters will be heading back to Earth anytime soon. Even within the episode, they do a brilliant gag about how they want to get the Chronos machine back, however rather than use it to get back to Earth, they just want it for propping up the pool table.
Red Dwarf itself has pretty much become home for the characters at this point,plus even if they did all want to go back, there's still that lingering plotline of Lister wanting to find Kochanski first, which pretty much prevents him from going anywhere without having found her first.
Was round with my dad and put it on for him. He really enjoyed it and said it was very good. Was my second watching of it and i honestly think its better the second time. I am very excited for the rest
As I was at the recording of this ep am I allowed to talk about deleted scenes yet?!?!?!!?!
Or is that too spoiler-y?
All good points, but this angle is worth exploring properly in the show. The unstated Kochanski arc, especially, only applies to the most recent era.
I'd love to see an episode where Lister got chance to return to Earth, in his own time, for good - but seemed a bit ratty and kept making mistakes - until the others rounded on him, and challenged whether he even wanted to succeed. They could even mention the time drive, gathering dust in the cupboard.
Before the disaster, Lister was "slime" - a nobody. Now he's the last surviving human and a sort of hero, encountering things that Chen or Selby couldn't dream of. The question of whether he'd want to go back, after all his adventures, is a legitimate one. I think it would work very well if they confronted it head-on, rather than leaving the audience scratching their heads about (apparent) missed opportunities.
I think every angle has been discussed so in a nutshell:
I'm not overly fond of the style of the opening credits as they remind me of bte. Had they of been new to x and xi, they freshen up the post series 2 intro.
I enjoyed the first act to when they leave starbug. Obviously the set has changed again but the gags and interaction were dwarf like. Simulants ok at this point. I didn't like the jump starting of kryten.
I wasn't overly fond of the main act. I much prefer ship bound episodes with just the guys, that's just me though. I don't like villains doing comedy. The simulants of serious 6 were fantastic. Everything since including these Borg style ones are too slap stick and I'm not keen. I did like the clever science comedy but it fit more with post series 6 stuff.
Didn't like the ending much either, very rushed and not funny.
It has potential judging by the first act and the trailer in the bunk room, but the location based stuff reminded me of some of the worst of dwarf rather than the classics.
Just watched it the once and thought it was...hmmm alright.
Am hoping 'Twentica' is this series' 'The Beginning'and the last 5 eps of this series will be as good as the first 5 of series 10.
Oh yeah, I'd definitely want to see this as an explored plot-line in the show. Maybe there'll be an episode such as this in Series XI or XII, or a future series. Seems such a waste not to explore how much Lister himself has developed since the very first episode. (Rob Grant's Backwards novel explores this in a sense I guess, but it felt a tad rushed) Especially since nobody else but Lister has any reason to want to go back to Earth. I dunno if it'll be explored in an episode, but it seems like seeds of the idea have occasionally been planted, even in that XI clip which has recently been posted online where Lister basically says he's come to accept he's going to be spending the rest of his life with Rimmer.
Definitely agree with your idea though, very well put.
I liked the episode. It was pretty solid, but not outstanding. I love the 1920's so the episode worked on that score, although I thought it did seem a little bit panto in its acting. Trouble was I also watched Rimmerworld after Twentica and thought that much better than Twentica, but still it's great to see them back and I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the series. (It has to be said that series 6 is probably my favourite series for quality of jokes so it was probably unfair to compare the two.)
I'll have to watch it again before I decide exactly how good it was, but it did seem like it was a little rushed, and I hoped that they would spend more time on RD.
After the first watch...
p.s. Interesting to see a lot say it is better on the second watch, so I'll have to do that again soon!
Speak to yourself! Rude people.
Ah funny you should mention it....
Well, I noticed a scene was cut that Howard Goodall mentioned prior to the filming wishing Robert good luck with the solo...
When I saw it, Robert did a saxophone solo which has been cut!
The policeman had more lines I think.
There was a scene where they were driving in the car too which has gone!!
What??? That's just to do with what time it is shown!!
I think it is more to do with run time. Dave has to schedule adverts before, during and after. Therefore like their top gear reruns bits get cut...... if it happens to be something which is also perhaps not suitable then for them its a win win
They can't cut red dwarf! Especially that bit lol
Keep me posted
Regardless of acting, comedy or anything else, this to me is the most Dwarfy-feeling episode since 1993.
My explanation has always been this. That's about as explicit as it gets as far as I can see.
The others, like Rimmer, don't get it because they weren't there for Lister's little talk with himself. Hence why Rimmer suggests it here even though it is never going to be a second thought for Lister.