RDXI Ep 2 - SAMSARA - DISCUSSION THREAD

Discussion in 'RED DWARF XI / XII' started by Seb, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    I know all that, which is why it makes no sense when Kryten says "while the rest of the crew survived by acting immorally, Green and Barker realised they could escape". I think I have an idea of what was meant by that, but "survived" seems like the wrong choice of word in that context.

    It seems like I'm the only one who fully appreciated the scene where Cat annoys Lister with his story of Archimedes inventing gravy. lol :-)
     
  2. Underdunn

    Underdunn First Technician

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    It was tricky to work out precisely what happened to the crew and why. Especially with the word 'survive' thrown in there so casually! Kryten wasn't using it the context of them unequivocally not dying though, rather he was highlighting how they were 'surviving' within the situation, which was by doing immoral things. Some of those immoral things even involved murder, hence the one guy who had been strangled from behind at his computer - or the two that both were stabbed. Basically the suggestion was that the Samsara had pretty much been reduced to hell on earth with everyone having to become evil and immoral to keep alive. They were probably all just going to end up killing each other if it had continued.

    Green and Barker had been the only ones to work out they could escape from it by stealing the only escape pod (an immoral act, since it was completely selfish and left the rest of them trapped with their fate). We don't know what actions actually wound up causing the flash-heat onboard, since that was never explained to us, though I don't suppose we *need* to know really. Presumably the majority of the crew still weren't being 'immoral' enough, or hadn't worked out they were supposed to be (technically you couldn't warn each other - since we know that when Green and Barker tried to do that to the Dwarfers they were instantly killed)

    The ones who were indulging in the impromptu orgy in the Samsura's drive room at the time of the disaster I would assume were having one last attempt at knocking the karma needle back the other way. But it was all in vain.

    As others have said. Yes, this was actually a very dark episode!
     
  3. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    ^^That was what I suspected, it was just the word "survive" threw me off for a while. lol I do wish the exact cause of the flash heating had been explained. It's one of those unresolved plot moments that niggles at you. hehe
     
  4. Underdunn

    Underdunn First Technician

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    Could have been anything really. I mean even Rimmer complimenting Kryten nearly caused it to happen again.
     
  5. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    Exactly. That happening just makes it even more mysterious. Seems strange that just one thing could trigger a meltdown, when it was built to enact Karma on a whole crew. My best guess is the Karma Drive was somehow damaged after Barker had tampered with it, making it very unstable.
     
  6. Paul Taylor

    Paul Taylor Console Officer

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    I think you're all missing the most important point of the episode, which is; is Mine-opoly being designed as a real boardgame, and where can I get it?
     
  7. KingR76

    KingR76 Deck Sergeant

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    At the screening on Thursday the warm up guy, Ray Peacock said that (whether or not this will appear on the Smeg Ups or not is another thing entirely) during recording Chris actually did consecutively throw a two and a one.

    This is yet ANOTHER terrific episode of Red Dwarf and certainly harks back to Series 1 and 2 with Rimmer and Lister shooting the breeze - the Mineopoloy game and then the BunkBed conversation (I know its only a really small thing but when I was watching this and Lister with his icecream, I'm sure he was actually eating some of it but that's bound to be a prop right? Because under the very hot Pinewood Studio lights theres no way it could have maintained its- well continuity)

    I liked the couple, that was a great touch, and I just love how Doug pushed the visual gags of the skeletons especially the positions.... that got a good response in the screening.

    The scenes with Lister and Cat together was very clever indeed and again terrific writing from Doug, "Starts with R." I thought was very clever.

    The Karma machine, again very clever and really set up Rimmer being in his element.

    Two great episodes :-)
     
  8. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    I think as well as "Justice" this episode also brought to mind "Kryten". Both in terms of Rimmer excitedly greeting guests who are actually dead, and the whole thing with the skeletons. I dunno if the throwback thing was a deliberate move on Doug's part, but there was very much a sense of an homage being paid to the early series'.
     
  9. _Pree_

    _Pree_ Skutter

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    +1 8)
     
  10. BetterAnythingThanThatToupee

    BetterAnythingThanThatToupee Third Technician

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    Further thoughts that occur:

    1. It probably could’ve done without the ‘Lister falling over in the dark’ moments. Or, conversely, they could’ve been shot in a better way. Other than that (and my original thoughts somewhere above), I really quite liked this one.

    Oh, and:

    2. The bunkroom scenes. A welcome return and the acting was much better (especially from Chris, who was FINALLY Rimmer again!), BUT … on reflection (and now I’ve had some time to digest the episode), it didn’t feel ‘natural’ to me. Take an episode from S1-S6. For argument’s sake: Better Than Life. The bunk scenes and reflective moments are all there, but they exist to serve the narrative, and they actually forward the story in some small way. In comparison, and as good as these bunkroom scenes were for New Dwarf, they did feel like Doug ‘just wanted to have some bunkroom scenes’, so he wrote some in.

    3. I really wanted it to end with Rimmer finding the Mineopoly card and just staring at it in a slow, building rage (i.e. the end of MAROONED).
     
  11. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    Was it as wobbly as Samsara though? Some people have steady hands! I'll have to rewatch a few eps from 3 and see how they look.

    I don't mind the camera wobbling a bit when it suits the direction (e.g., marching along with the crew as they explore a claustrophobic corridor). But it's a bit odd if it's just Rimmer or Lister sat down and the camera can't stay still.
     
  12. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Watched it again and found myself enjoying the Cat and Lister scenes much more this time around. I still feel a bit uncertain about the flashback scenes but overall a pretty decent episode. :-)

    Perhaps we could start a petition (or a major leaflet campaign) to see if we can convince the powers that be to produce said game as official merchandise for the new RD shop. I'd buy it! :-)
     
  13. Underdunn

    Underdunn First Technician

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    When I watched it first time I was like, "ugh!" because it seemed like such a lame bit of slapstick "you've been framed" type thing for red dwarf to do. It wasn't helped by the BIG laugh it got from the audience. Just seemed so crap.

    Then I did my second watch of course and it suddenly became a plot point! He fell over (twice!) not because it was dark but because he'd just volunteered to fetch Cat the first aid kit and was being punished for it by the karma drive.

    Along with the dreads in the shredder, knife in the foot, sudden way the power inexplicably comes back on when the dwarfers first squabble etc etc the show absolutely rewards a second watch by letting you view these weirdly random moments in a sudden context you now understand. Red Dwarfs done this a few times before (Stasis Leak, Thanks For The Memory, Back to Reality) and it's always very rewarding. I'm not quite sure Samsara is ready to take its place along side those classics, but it's a bloody good try!
     
  14. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    Precisely. Even bits I actually liked the first time I watched it, became even better on the second viewing due to that reason. The opening scene, and Cat annoying Lister with his Archimedes inventing gravy story, are good examples of that. Whether or not it's up there with the "classics" is also something Im unsure of, but for sure, it got very close to entering that realm of greatness. Far closer than most episodes since Series VII began, that's for sure!
     
  15. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    I might be wrong but i believe it was said only Marooned was filmed on handheld, they made a point of it in the Series 3 documentary anyway.
     
  16. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    Yeah thats how i felt after the episode.

    It was an ambitious episode and Red dwarf in the past has done ambitious episodes like back to reality but i don't think samsara quite compares to those episodes in quality.

    i honestly think there are ways doug could have made it better with a few changes here and there.
     
  17. BetterAnythingThanThatToupee

    BetterAnythingThanThatToupee Third Technician

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    Yeah, I did get that it was part of the whole 'Karma' device, but the execution of it just left me cold. I actually think it needed more emphasis to work in context -- but that's just me. Still really liked this one for the Rimmer/Lister performances alone.
     
  18. SweatyChimpBoy

    SweatyChimpBoy Second Technician

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    One idea I think Doug should run with is adding abit of nostalgia to the new series.
    Just like he did with Series VIII and the old Series I/II bunkroom, why dont they try to recreate some of the scenery from previous series like the Science Room or even try to recreate the Starbug cockpit from Series VI.

    Mel Bibby did an awesome job on a very tight budget, surely they could recreate those same sets with little to no effort on a much larger budget.

    I understand that each series is different but just a little touch like that would go a long way to adding that familiar touch, connecting the new series to an old one through a visual set design.
     
  19. Pembers

    Pembers Deck Sergeant

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    You know those 'doh' moments you have?

    I thought the Cat thinking 'R-chemidies' or whatever inventing 'gravy' was just random and silly, I just worked out its because its a similar word to 'gravity'. What a div.
     
  20. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    Lol Yep, that is what makes it so funny. Cat's total misinterpretation of what actually happened. And that makes Lister's exacerbation much more amusing. :-)
     

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