RDXI Ep 3 - GIVE AND TAKE - DISCUSSION THREAD

Discussion in 'RED DWARF XI / XII' started by Seb, Sep 29, 2016.

  1. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    I prefer Give & Take to the previous 2 episodes but there are still a few things that stopped it from reaching 1 - 6 classic territory
     
  2. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    I like that unlike with Series X, I'm not one of the more negative people this time around.
     
  3. magnetiser

    magnetiser Third Technician

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    Ditto. I think the over-lengthy Cat and Lister scene and the abrupt ending really brings Samsara down (but I appreciate that, conversely, some really rate it; for me, it just feels like it could be any sitcom characters rather than the Cat/Lister that we know and love). Twentica and Give & Take, on the other hand, feel much more well-crafted, pacier and witty.

    Still, let's not detract from the fact that XI (and presumably XII) are proving to be pretty damn fine, top-notch series. :-)
     
  4. betelgeuse

    betelgeuse Catering Officer

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    My scoring out of ten for the episodes so far;
    Twentica - 7
    Samsara - 5
    Give & Take - 8 and a half

    Doug (Naylor) really needs to look at what worked in Give and Take and keep on doing it. This was the best episode for years since perhaps series 6 or maybe 7 for me. It had the great sci fi we know Doug can do, but also reminded me of early 90s episodes with the "monster", a good few laughs etc the only points I didn't like were some of the soundtrack music, over dependence on the whole Snacky thing, and underusage of such a great villain who I hope returns in future episodes. It really was like an unused script from the 90s with added bits (er....snacky).
     
  5. hubbard

    hubbard Deck Sergeant

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    K, call me crazy but I enjoyed this one way more than the previous two, way way more. This actually felt more like classic Red Dwarf to me with the close knit plot on board Red Dwarf, the zippy time travel plot which I'm not gonna look into too deeply for fear of getting lost, and the quirky new robot.

    Admittedly I was worried at first because as I've already pointed out, there was practically zero originality again in the build up. Yet another deserted space station/facility type place with mysterious dead bodies. Yet another crazy lone antagonist within said station/facility which tries to kill the red dwarf posse. Yet another argument with a service machine on board the Dwarf sub plot and the whole time jumping aspect is beyond overkill these days.

    Can't ignore the fact that the crazed medical robot character was completely unexplained though, unless I missed it? Why had the robot gone crazy? Why did it want to remove kidneys specifically? Why did it look the way it did?

    Still, for some reason this one sat well with me, it just felt like a good self contained story. Plus I LOVED the one shot of a tiny silhouetted Red Dwarf against that vast, Jupiter-esque planet. Beautiful shot.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    I've thought about this. I don't think it was quite clarified whether the droid was Aesclepius. It was wearing Aesclepius' jacket backwards so the crew didn't see the name. Kryten suggested it was a droid mental-patient that was already crazy and had escaped its bonds, but that was when he thought Snacky was Aesclepius.

    I was thinking it was Aescelpius and he had gone crazy because he had been left on a space station for three million years. But Snacky had also been left on a space station for three million years, and he hadn't gone crazy. But I suppose different robots cope with things better than others, like people. Maybe because his job was less stressfull he was more chilled, but Aescelpius being an over-achiever and so used to doing important, complicated things found it harder to deal with and needed to run around pretending to do surgery and went mad because he had nothing to do.

    However, if that droid was Aesclepius the medi-droid, why did he look so scary? They wouldn't have made a medical droid look like a bug-eyed psychopath with sharp teeth and weapon-hands. If he's a medi-droid then why is one of his hands a gun? The more I think about it, the more I think it can't be Aescelpius. Yet he has the ability to stitch wounds*.

    When you think about it, the droid didn't show any malicious intent. He certainly looked malicious with his scary face and claw-hand, but he addressed Cat & Lister as Mr. and Mrs. Whatever and thought they were there for a kidney transplant. Then he cut Lister open and stitched him back up*. It's hard to tell what he thought he was doing because we don't really know what was going on with Lister's kidneys. Obviously a double-kidney transplant would kill the donor.

    *UNLESS the droid wasn't stitching Lister up, he was unstitching the stitches that were already there? But surely he'd wonder why Lister already had stitches. But I suppose all inconsistencies can be explained by him being crazy.
     
  7. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    I don't agree that it felt straight out of the 90's, I felt it was very much like series X in the way it wanted to blend different eras for the show. But I won't lie that the shot on location stuff felt very series V, which was nice to see. I kinda feel like this was an episode that Doug was trying to achieve with series X but it all came together so much better here. Like I said, if I like future episodes as much as I enjoyed this or Twentica, then I will be a happy chappy indeed!
     
  8. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    The gun shoots tranquiliser darts, doesn't it?

    If you look carefully, the blades on the knife hand seem to change during the episode - so he can probably swap hands around according to task.

    It would make sense for him to have a tranquiliser gun somewhere in his arsenal. Presumably, he has it fitted at the minute 'cos he's mental, and got used to his patients trying to run away.

    As for his scary design... the production reason for that is, he's the villain :-) In-universe, either he was badly designed, or wasn't meant to interact with conscious patients much (given that his specialism is surgery rather than general practice).

    In his proper context, he might not even be that scary. He doesn't have sharp teeth; he has a smile-shaped grill of narrow bars.

    Remember he's been hanging around for millions of years and might have modified his appearance in his lunacy. Maybe he used to have a Kryten-style layer of flesh-coloured latex, and Kryten would look equally scary without his "skin". Perhaps the grill had a cover that he took off, etc., etc..
     
  9. mtullock

    mtullock First Technician

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    have rewatched without a hangover and I have to say it was much better. Didnt like the ending, a minute or so more could have sorte4d it. Still not sold on Snacky but if thats all we see of him then Im ok with it. The guy in the surgeons outfit was good but not quite classic like inquisitor etc... but overall a much better ep that I first gave it credit for.

    Tucky tucky tuck tuck!
     
  10. Gluben

    Gluben Third Technician

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    I think this is the best episode of series XI so far, although all episodes have beaten Back to Earth and series X. They may never be up to the standard of series III to VI, but they're definitely enjoyable.

    Again, the flaws of the episode (the plothole with Asclepius already having kidneys, Snacky being revealed too early) have already been mentioned. One other thing though: the lift could, and probably should, have been Holly. No disrespect to Daniel Barker as the voice of the lift, but having Holly would've made it truly feel like an old episode.

    Sigh, I do so miss Holly...
     
  11. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    The droid is definitely Asclepius. He's listed as such in the credits.
     
  12. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    This is a great theory...and the idea that he wasn't Asclepius makes him an even more chilling character...just what the hell was he!
     
  13. Chris D

    Chris D Engineer

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    Good point! I was beginning to believe some of the theories, should have thought to check the credits by now :roll:

    PS. Did you get my message? I'm not sure if you get a notification or not when there is one!
     
  14. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    During the gunfight, it looked to me like he was returning fire with a bazookoid-type cannon, because it flashed like it was gunpowder/laser and made a big noise. Having reviewed the scene, you're right, it is the same tranquiliser dart gun he used on Lister. I was thrown off by the fact that it flashed like a proper gun. Can't say I have much experience with tranquiliser dart cannons. I don't imagine he was built with it, but I can get behind the idea that it was something he found or built over three million years of being crazy.
     
  15. bigtimedwarfer

    bigtimedwarfer Second Technician

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    Another excellent episode, I love the ones that make you revisit what has happened to put the loop together.

    As has been said before, I think Lister only had missing kidneys because the future dwarfers took them out. I reckon Asclepius had cloned a new set using Cat's DNA, hence Cat being a "donor", and genetically modified them to suit Lister as described by Kryten. He was then undoing Lister's stiches in preparation for implanting the cloned kidneys when Rimmer blew them to smithereens. The poor misunderstood droid is a hero and all he got for his trouble was a few rounds of bazookoid fire!

    The only thing I haven't quite reconciled is what event lead to Lister's kidneys being removed in the first place.

    This is shaping up to be an excellent series, hat's off to all involved.
     
  16. Underdunn

    Underdunn First Technician

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    I'm not sure who put them back!
     
  17. Callisto252

    Callisto252 Supply Officer

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    I really, really loved this episode. So much so that I immediately had to watch it again, it's the most I've enjoyed a new Red Dwarf episode since 1993. At a push, 1992!

    I don't know, maybe it's not actually as good as a series V/VI episode - I'm probably over-excited and perhaps it's too early to tell. But for the first time in many years it all felt so... effortless. That's the best word I can think of to describe it. All the characters felt like themselves and there were no real missteps IMO. I'm happy to accept the causal loop thingy for now, it's been done before in Ouroboros (and not as well, I think). I know at some point I'm going to start trying to work it out though (Asclepius was definitely sewing Lister up - after doing what??).

    Nostalgia is probably affecting my judgement as I loved the little nods to the past (particularly the return of Rastabilly Skank!). None of it felt too shoe-horned in, especially as there were so many new elements to enjoy as well. Best of all was the scene where Lister chloroforms himself - that was brilliantly done. I was watching the film Moon last week, and in the BTS documentary there was a whole section on the difficulties of split screen filming where an actor has to properly interact with himself. At the time it made me think of how Red Dwarf has done this in the past, but obviously using older techniques and with no actual interaction. It's clearly come on a lot! This scene was so impressive that I totally believed in it (it was only afterwards that I thought, did they really just do that?).

    Also 'Captain Bollocks' - didn't that come from the 'lost' smeg ups, from series V? I always wondered whether that was a complete ad lib or whether it actually referred to something. Funny how it's now made it to an episode. And it made me laugh a lot!!
     
  18. Goit_84

    Goit_84 First Technician

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    That was the best episode in long, long time.

    Almost, very nearly, a return to form. At long last.
     
  19. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    For me this series so far is absolutely as good as "classic Dwarf". It's feels really quite special and everything just clicks so imperfectly perfectly. Cat was on top form again, Kryten is in the zone and had some amusing lines (I loved the "captain bollox" bit), Lister is as good as ever and Rimmer was perhaps at his best so far in this series (which is hopefully a nice little appetiser for an upcoming Rimmer-centric episode). I loved the therapy session scene, and that Lister split screen shot was well impressive.

    I liked Snacky too and wouldn't mind seeing 'him' show up again every now and then (although I suspect that's the last we'll see). The talkie elevator was a nice touch and reminded me of the very early series'. As for Asclepius, he have already become one of my favourite villains (or misunderstood non-villain depending on certain interpretations). Although his limited use probably knocks him down my list a bit, but the design and voice (which I wasn't expecting) gel well in creating a genuinely creepy character. I do hope he returns at some point. He's not dead, is he? No, don't answer that, I simply refuse to believe he's dead! I've still only seen it twice but will giving it a third viewing in a bit. It's great to see that these episodes are getting such positive feedback for the most part. :-)

    My current scores out of 10:

    Twentica - 9
    Samsara - 6 and a half
    Give & Take - 8

    Agreed. It's been a joy to read these threads :-)
     
  20. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Questions for Snacky:

    Why was there only one skeleton aboard the space-station, when presumably lots of other people worked there too.
    Why did the staff at the space-station leave his body lying on the floor decomposing instead of clearing it away.
     

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