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Discussion in 'RED DWARF XI / XII' started by Seb, Sep 29, 2016.
Maybe it's my TV! Seemed strangely wide to me....A bit bloated.
Like many of us, Robert isn't quite as trim as he was 25 years ago
Asclepius - *bolts in opposite direction and quakes* :shock:
Haha, this is true! I've certainly spread outwards in the last few years. Have just watched samsara again to compare and it does seem the same in that....not sure why I thought it looked different in give and take to start with.
Ah well, back to the fourth watch of the series so far
Has anyone noticed the passing comment by Snacky to Rimmer in this episode yet?
He says something about serving an old crew member (Underwood or something) but it isn't referenced again?!?!
Unless I missed something?
That was the strangest part of the episode, I mean I dunno if Doug has anything planned with that....or if he added it in to mess with our heads because he knows we'll overanalyse everything!
Hmmm I wonder if it's a reference to series 12.
Unless the joke was that he had the honour of serving him a snack. Possible misdirection?
Seemed a bit specific though don't you think? What a mystery!
Yes definitely specific and that's why it seems out of place and without any context.
I don't see the need to set up a line for a future series XII event here. If Snacky is going to be featured in XII then just show a clip of him in XII before revisiting the former crewmen revelation.
On the other hand if it's a joke then it would probably only fit in if we weren't shown the word SNACKY on his back so early in the episode.
This is too much thinking for the morning!
Maybe it's an inside joke that none of us get...
Oh actually, I think I once heard something about a name-list that was going to be worked into the show. Not sure if this is a myth or something in an old session. Can anyone remember hearing something similar?
I think he can be around for passing comments in the form of plot conveniences but I suspect as a character he's so unique that it'll be odd to bring him back later.
I also liked him a lot which is surprising because most of the RDX talking objects didn't work well for me at all from the jokes, plots and their voices.
This episode was clearly the best so far since the boys figured it out themselves instead of Kryten 'best guessing' it for them
My thoughts were it was just a joke that 'Snacky' had served a snack to someone Rimmer knew. I didn't think there was any deeper story that was cut out or for a following ep. :shock:
I'm willing to bet that the Ronald Littlewood line was a leadup to a gag.
E.G After they find out Snacky is a snack machine, Rimmer says something like "But I thought you said you served Ronald Littlewood" and then Snacky would respond with "Yes I served him a Diet Coke and a packet of cheese and bacon crisps". Seems like something of that caliber would have occured in a deleted scene. Guess we'll find out when the DVD comes out.
I was mulling this one over in my head, and I would have thrown in a play on words. E.g., maybe have Snacky say, "I had the honour of treating one of your former crew-mates."
Later, when Snacky's true identity is revealed, Rimmer could say, "But you said you treated Ronald Littlewood?!" - and Snacky could reply, "I did. To a Curly Wurly."
Re-watched this today, I liked the little in-joke at Craig Charles expense when Lister said 'I'm allowed to move me lips when I read'
Wasn't that in Samsara?
Doh, yes of course it was. Re-watched both ya see.
It's taken me quite a long time to right something about this episode but anyway here goes.
This is simply the best episode of series 11 thus far. It's extremely strong and IMHO pretty much as tight as the series 2-6 scripts with hardly a line wasted. For a start, it's great to have the bazookoids back again and a skutter as well to boot. But what is most pleasing - despite the fact that IMHO the more comical antagonists are good too in a different way - is that there is a more sinister villain a la series 5. Although Asclepius is only present in the first half of the episode I do not mind that really as in a way this demented droid is like series 5's similarly "fruitloop" Dr Lanstrome - only a threat in the first half of the episode and a lunatic medic too. I wonder if Ascelpius is a deliberate throwback to Quarantine's baddie but this time in form of a droid while the skeleton is very series 5!
The way the power station that is used for the spaceship is lit up also provides a vintage series 4-6 feel for the episode. It's both dark but easy on the eye and bright at the same time - a real improvement once again on series 10. It's incredible what has been achieved on a spend smaller than even the previous series though I suppose using some of the same sets for the Red Dwarf mother ship will have helped cut costs. But still it is remarkable how even better than series 10 this new material looks on screen.
But anyway as for the story itself - it's simply fansmeggingtastic IMHO. In terms of Doug writing about medical matters this is no equivalent to 2014's crass Over to Bill. The comedy from the missing kidneys is much more acceptable and hilarious too than jokes about bone marrow donation! But as for the main plot itself of the missing kidneys in future Lister due to the time loop it is simply spellbinding - it's very timey-wimey Doctor Who but in a really good way and crucially really funny too. I remember a year or two ago I wrote on one of the threads about series 10 that in the future RD I wanted to see more "heavy science" stories like series 4-6 and with this and Samsara in particular Doug has really achieved the feat with aplomb. Linking the earlier lift slowness to it being the future Dwarfers trying to avoid their former selves to prevent time being destroyed was also very Doctor Who and cohesive and clever writing from Doug. Red Dwarf in series 11 is more cerebral again and all the better for it!
I also like others feel that Give and Take has the best ending of all the new episodes with the bootstrap paradox pay off but even then it could have been even better IMHO if there had been a punchline about how Asclepius never took Lister's kidneys only the dialysis chip so they never needed to take the former Lister's kidneys anyway. It could have been hilarious! But still maybe leaving it for the viewer to work out could be considered effective too really showing how this episode returns RD back to the sophisticated sci-fi of its peak years. As for the mislead with Asclepius having two kidneys in his lab it is slightly difficult to discern at first viewing IMHO but it works really well once you understand properly. Although series 11's episodes have been a bit harder to follow than the previous series ultimately it is more rewarding as it gets you thinking more and the plots have more depth which like I said is what I wanted from this new material two years ago.
As for the comedy itself, it is like I said earlier the tightest script in series 11 so far. Snacky is deliberately goofy and similarly another classic Who reference in terms of appearance. I thought he was really funny and the counselling scene/gag was my favourite of the entire episode. As for "Captain Bollocks" I notice a few people have not appreciated it on this board but I am glad most fans on twitter have loved it because for me it is just such simple but really effective humour that it has got to be series 11's "Let's get out there and twat it" or "my duty to be a complete and utter bastard." It's also superior to IMHO "utter twat" from the previous RD run. But this episode is simply packed with incredibly funny dialogue and the only line wasted on mentioning someone Rimmer used to know is due to a scene cut that would have occurred later on in the episode which does not really affect my enjoyment of Give and Take at all.
While I thought Fathers and Suns, Lemons and The Beginning were pretty excellent too Give and Take is probably the strongest of the Dave era so far! I especially also like how using the stasis booths to time travel is also a reference back to series 2's great Stasis Leak as well as the episode feeling more like it could come from the early 90s era. Snacky helping to initiate this pay off is decent too and after all the humour comes from how he surprisingly ultimately can help as he has learnt the knowledge off the former crew member on Asclepius' ship about using stasis booths to time travel - this is definitely the finest conclusion to all the series 11 episodes so far. I remember a couple of years ago in a what we wanted from series 11 thread I posted that I wasn't sure RD could ever come back into peak form in the future. To be fair I took it back immediately and thank goodness I did as with this especially it is there or thereabouts up there with the vintage years - what an unprecedented return to former glory!
8.5 or 9 out of 10 on first viewing.