RDXI Ep 3 - GIVE AND TAKE - DISCUSSION THREAD

Discussion in 'RED DWARF XI / XII' started by Seb, Sep 29, 2016.

  1. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I'm not sure about this episode really, but it appears very popular so maybe it's just me :?

    It was funny at the start, but after that, for me, it was more about the story than laughs. Which if course isn't a bad thing per se, some of RD's finest episodes are more great story than laugh-a-minute hilarity.

    All this stuff with kidneys! Asclepius must have removed them, as that's what's stated in the episode synopsis, surely?

    Talking of Asclepius, yes, very good monster of the week. Good looks, slightly manic voice, maybe could have focused a bit more on the knives to increase the terror.

    Now, about the scene where Lister asks Cat for a kidney. I guess it's to drive the point home about how selfish he is, but for me, somehow, it all seemed very sad. I'm not used to sad scenes in RD. Cat's hair was wrong too, and his eyebrows too thick, which added to its oddness. So, I really don't know about that bit at all...

    Is there a series theme, perhaps, of characters becoming more than they think they are? Snacky here, and non-Einstein in Twentica?

    Snacky - great line = Please! I'm a stasis booth technician :lol:

    Liked the bazookoids firing, power station set, the space station. I can't wait to get it on Blu-Ray so I can appreciate it all in HD.

    So, overall = 5/10.
     
  2. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I don't think one should take the episode description as a statement of fact. A good portion of the episode had the Dwarfers operating under the assumption that Asclepius had taken Lister's kidneys so the description merely reflected that.

    Without spoiling too much, there is another episode whose description you will find even less accurate (if there is such a thing as gradations of accuracy, but I'm sure you understand what I mean). One character states something, and that somehow becomes the description of that episode...
     
  3. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Got to be honest. I'm struggling to see how your written review equates to 5/10...but then I struggle to see how anyone could dislke this episode.
    I don't get why you find the cat Lister scene to be sad, its clearly played for laughs (Cat shouting about rock salt?) but there have certainly been sad scenes in RD before.
     
  4. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I was confused by that too...it's not even a particularly great joke. It just made me worry for no good reason about something that would have undermineone of the show's central premises.
    Thankfully the episode found another way to almost undermine another central premise...but I digress. :roll:
     
  5. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Yeah I can appreciate some of the jokes, but it kind of dispels the boys from the dwarf/ all in it together feeling of camaraderie, at least for me.

    Maybe I can watch it again and improve to a 6...?
     
  6. Androidsandbeingasleep

    Androidsandbeingasleep Third Technician

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    Good episode. Particularly enjoyed the scenes with Cat and Lister when Lister asked Cat for a kidney and liked how the end linked up with the opening scene.
     
  7. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    Another good one for me, although I wasn't quite as blown away by it as some others seem to be.

    I've neither the time or inclination right now to read through the rest of the thread so apologies if this has been mentioned, but there were a couple of things that stood out for me as seeming a bit out of place within the context of the episode. The idea that the actual stasis engineer killed his future self for trying to warn him just doesn't really fit for me, I appreciate that we know next to nothing about him but the idea of stabbing someone to death for trying to give a warning, however far fetched it may seem just seems wrong for me. The guy must have had massive anger management issues.

    Regarding Asclepius himself, whilst suitably menacing for the monster of the episode his appearance seemed a bit out of place for his originally intended purpose to me. I've had surgery in the past, I can't imagine that if something looking like Asclepius appeared by my bedside it would exactly put me at my ease. Maybe by then people are much more comfortable with doctors looking like deranged torture droids though ;-)

    As for the issue of the kidneys, I don't feel it was at all obvious at any point that the ones we saw weren't Lister's. I personally think that if it was supposed to be a bit of misdirection, maybe it should have been made a bit more obvious later in the episode. If so many people seem to have got the wrong end of the stick there, maybe it isn't their fault.

    But relatively minor quibbles aside (None of these really make a massive difference to the plot IMO), an otherwise pretty good, solid episode for me.

    Can't help wondering what happened to Snacky though, but then Red Dwarf is huge and seems full of machines with varying levels of artificial intelligence so he's probably wandering around somewhere, either that or he's left to pursue his new career as a stasis booth engineer.
     
  8. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Maybe Snacky is finally repairing the stasis leak on floor 16.
     
  9. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    I'd always assumed that the stasis leak had self-sealed shortly after the episode, that's the best explanation I can come up with for why they've never tried to use it again.
     
  10. djmcbell

    djmcbell Supply Officer

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    Well, the third episode of series XI was on my re-watch tonight, and by God it's good!

    Give and Take is a rare episode these days - heck, even managing to beat out some of the older Red Dwarf. The premise again involves some timey-whimey shenanigans (hey, haven't we just had two episodes of that) but in a rather brilliant setup. Each of the three episodes so far have involved time in one way or another, and all differently:

    Twentica - crew go back in time to stop the Exponoids

    Samsara - admittedly time is only used in flashbacks

    Give & Take - the crew go back in a circular loop, creating their own bootstrap paradox

    Yep, I noticed right at the start of the episode Lister's operation scars and plasters. It's right there, yet nobody will have paid attention to it the first time through. Absolutely brilliant little detail, completely unnecessary but appreciated.

    The story involves a good few plot points, but requires all the crew. Something I've liked about series XI is that there are no "sub-plots" going on at the same time, such as Lister's phone plot in Trojan or Kryten/Cat in Entangled. It is all one big, cohesive plot through the episode which changes and evolves as the situation warrants.

    Visually, this episode is mostly great. The model work - some of which I believe is CG - is good, though I'm not keen on the fast-moving shot as Starbug approaches the station. Also, Starbug leaving through the exploding station just looks off on a few levels. The character design for Asclepius is great, but you can tell it's a bloke in a plastic white gown (with admittedly a great mask). A pity he wasn't in it more often or given a body of more substance, like say the Inquisitor. Snacky, however, was perfect.

    Speaking of guests, every guest character was spot on, apart from the lift. I found the lift okay in the beginning and when it was encountered again towards the end, but found the ending (and again the lift's involvement) unnecessary, and... well, lazy. Again, Snacky was spot-on, and Asclepius too - just a shame about his costume.

    The writing of this episode was great - the jokes weren't the best, but they were consistent. I know there's a lot about this episode that I liked, but struggle to remember a lot of it even an hour after watching. The whole "Captain Bollocks" scene was a high point, but other than that I struggle to remember a lot of really stand-out, laugh-out-loud moments. I just know that they were there, and I wasn't bored.

    When I decided I wanted to re-watch XI and do a write-up, I wanted to include my thoughts then vs my thoughts now, and to be honest I really don't think I want to now. Give & Take is a good episode of Red Dwarf, full-stop. Back when I watched it I thought it was easily the best since series 6 (except Tikka To Ride, perhaps - somehow that one has a fond place in my heart), but not up there with a lot of the pre-series-7 Dwarf. I did wonder if they'd manage to keep the momentum going. Thankfully, I now know that they did (with, in my opinion, the exception of Krysis).
     
  11. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Speaking of timey-whimey shenanigans, the last eight months of posts have vanished.
     
  12. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    I didn't like Captain Bollocks. It was too new, if that makes sense. XI series of Red Dwarf, we've never heard Kryten call him that. It was like it's supposed to be funny because it's the word bollocks. I'm aware of the origins of the joke from an old smeg-up. Maybe it was meant as an in-joke.

    The other niggle I had was the way the plot relied on Snacky and Asclepius both happening to have their names on their backs. Asclepius is wearing his jacket backwards because he's crazy (and wearing jackets backwards is the first thing crazy people do!). But why would a vending machine have its name in big letters across its back.
     
  13. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Which smeg up is that from?
     
  14. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    I can't remember, but there's a clip where one of them says "Captain . . ." then messes up and says " . . . bollocks!", and everyone starts saying "Captain Bollocks".
     
  15. Wenceslas

    Wenceslas Deck Sergeant

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    Oh, thank you!
     
  16. UltraDevotee

    UltraDevotee Catering Officer

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    Another decent review and I agree with nearly all of it. But I would have to say the ending with the lift getting its own back on Rimmer is really funny. Though maybe the end should have been a punchline joke about how Asclepius was not the actual organ stealer and how they instead ended up with a pointless bootstrap paradox also just to satisfy the fans who did not read Doug's tweet about how the kidneys in the deranged droid's medical lab were a misdirect. For example, I noticed how in SFX's letters section how some fans had said that the plot did not make sense as obviously without knowing about the misdirect they thought that Lister's organs had already been removed via the bootstrap paradox before Asclepius even touched Lister.

    The other thing I would have to say is the reason why I feel that Give and Take is simply now in my estimation the finest Red Dwarf episode since series 6 is because IMHO it is like with the Rob Grant co-writes, every line (bar the wasted one about Snacky serving one of Rimmer's ex-crew mates) is really funny and worthwhile. There is no fat and it is IMHO as watertight as Red Dwarf was during its late 1988-1993 glory days. As I mean, I think it's even more awesome than Tikka to Ride as while that had a similarly phenomenal timey wimey time travel plot the dialogue in Give and Take is simply far funnier. Each time I have watched Give and Take it has grown on me ever more and yes it is clearly my favourite episode of 11. Hell, I even find the "Tuck, tuck, tuck, tuck, tucky, tucky tuck" line really funny too!
     
  17. Abe but more Christmassy and all

    Abe but more Christmassy and all Deck Sergeant

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    I thought it was originally a scripted insult which got scrapped from another episode, wasn't it?
     
  18. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    Yeah its from like this rare smegs up video on youtube and the gag feels lazy to me because its a cast joke from 1991 that everyone went crazy over like it was something cool and original.

    At the 9:05 mark
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
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  19. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    I ain't fond of the tricking the cat stuff in this episode either because again i think it plays way to hard on the cat being gullible in order to work, but thats just me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017

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