RDXII EPISODE 1 - CURED - DISCUSSION THREAD

Discussion in 'RED DWARF XI / XII' started by Seb, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. Chris D

    Chris D Engineer

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    I don't think this is accurate. The joke to me is not that he "can't play" but instead he can play, just very badly. In Psirens, he certainly plays guitar better than I can (as terrible as it is). In Marooned you hear him play about 3 chords (though it is implied he actually plays an entire song or two). Both times we've seen him play guitar (are there any others?) he's been playing it with his own guitar which is quite obviously not tuned correctly.

    I don't see him playing guitar in this episode anywhere near a continuity error. It can be explained by the better parts of the playing being mostly Hitler, or Lister playing better because he's playing with someone else, or him using a guitar which is tuned properly. Either way, the performance with Hitler was still crap.
     
  2. mtullock

    mtullock First Technician

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    Perhaps I was being harsh last night. 2nd viewing is better. Still hate the Jam with Hitler and dont think a lot of a the gags hit the mark, but there are some wonderful moments in there as well. With a non sleepy head and fresh eyes..... probably 6/10 for me.
     
  3. Rageofangels

    Rageofangels First Technician

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    Second viewing was just as good as the first (maybe even slightly better, so my 7.5/10 stands). Love some of the jokes, especially...
    "How you you feel if you were Rimmer?"
    "Ugly!"
     
  4. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    Surprised by all the highly positive responses in this thread. Even an unpopular classic-era episode like Meltdown was superior to this. My first reaction when the credits rolled was something along the lines of: 'What a weird episode. And not a very good one either.' I can't see myself wanting to rewatch this often. On the positive side, there were a few good lines along the way, and the sudden change in direction at the 18 minute mark took me by surprise.

    Various thoughts:
    • Please, Doug, no more football jokes. They're so out-of-place in a futuristic space setting.
    • Cat being revealed to be a psychopath certainly feels like a natural development rather than something randomly created for this episode as he's been displaying psychopathic traits since season 1 (considering his lunch more important than Lister's life, etc).
    • Was that a Jimmy Savile reference by Lister?
    • After being underused for so long, I like that Cat's been getting a lot more to do these last couple of seasons.
    • Why are Kryten's hands so big this season?
    Funniest line:
    Rimmer: "Have we got any guns with us?"
    Kryten: "Just your staple gun, sir."
    Rimmer: "Fill her up."

    Overall: It was a strange episode, and should have been better. There was a good idea buried here somewhere, but it was one that was rendered poorly.

    Rating: 6/10
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  5. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    I did think the exposition part when on abit long also

    Its like after they found the presumed stasis pods the crew went into a moral discussion about the concept and while i think exposition is good since it shows doug isn't being lazy about it i also think it felt like doug was keen to get some message or social commentary out.
     
  6. davidjames

    davidjames Skutter

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    I liked this episode, Usually judge them on their ability to make me laugh rather than the plot, this episode was funny, the plot was just a bit
     
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  7. Smelkus

    Smelkus Third Technician

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    It wasn't bishops it was Ottomans and it wasn't just because they refused to remove their hats it was also because they came demanding he pay a Jitzya and he wasn't going to be their Dhimmi
     
  8. reaktor24

    reaktor24 Third Technician

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    He also played guitar in Confidence and Paranoia. 'The Indling Song'



    Probably his most famous Lister guitar performance! Hang your heads.
     
  9. HO HO HO I'M JMC

    HO HO HO I'M JMC Deck Sergeant

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    You know, the main thing current Dwarf reminds me of... is actually Only the Good.

    If you tune out the Series VIII format change, Only the Good is a classic standalone story, with some genuine laughs and familiar Dwarf elements. You've got a shape-shifting threat; a parallel universe with one variable flipped; Rimmer being ambitious; Rimmer being an unlikely hero; and a key plot device that's pure "space fantasy". A brief synopsis of Only the Good would look right at home with the classic episodes. It just isn't put together quite as well as them. And that's exactly how I feel about XI/XII. So the current episodes remind me very strongly of Only the Good.

    Take Cured. You've got a classic standalone story, with some genuine laughs and familiar Dwarf elements. A crazed genius; historical villains; a remote penal institute; Cat being vain and selfish. It just isn't put together quite as well as a classic episode.

    That isn't a terrible judgement, because I'm actually quite fond of Only the Good - probably for the reasons given here (especially now the cliffhanger doesn't serve as a series finale).
     
  10. HO HO HO I'M JMC

    HO HO HO I'M JMC Deck Sergeant

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    How I'd "cure" Cured

    Firstly, the planetoid that turns up to imperil the space station is far too convenient, and limits the tension in the first act by appearing late. So, I'd factor it in from the start. They make a special effort to visit the space station precisely because it's about to be destroyed. The imminent arrival of the planetoid - rather than the approach of Starbug - wakes the residents from cryo-sleep, several days before they meet the Dwarfers (explaining why they aren't groggy).

    When the Dwarfers arrive, they're grounded by the sandstorm, explaining why they don't leave straight away. This means the ethical dilemma of rescuing the historical villains (or not) can be introduced more gradually and naturally.

    If we couldn't get a better song for the jamming scene, I would re-write the lines about "soft rock". Because it isn't soft rock. If anything, it's more punky (the juxtaposition of song/style reminds me of God Save The Queen or My Way).

    I'd make Telford's story a bit less puzzling. For starters, he would say that time travel was used to assemble the test subjects (and give some hand-wavy reason for why they no longer have access to time travel). Also, during the denouement, he would reveal that he chose this story because there were costumes left over from a "bad taste" fancy dress party.

    I'd call Shaul Telford "Saul Telford". Shaul is too obscure a name, and made me hear "Shawl".

    And I'd call the episode "Cure for Evil", "Rehab" - with the word "rehab" shoehorned into the script somewhere - or even "Here No Evil". They're not the best titles, but "Cured" is just too bland. It's a very functional bit of vocab, that doesn't evoke any kind of mood or feeling.

    EDIT: Although, rewatching it now, "Cured" does start to feel like a more Dwarfy title, when I see it on screen in a bold red font.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  11. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    On second watch, that song is quite awkward. The words were written after WWII, so there's no particular reason why Hitler would know it or like it other than it's German. As for Lister, it just doesn't seem like the kind of song he'd know. I'd never heard of it before and I'm from the late 20th-early 21st century. Lister's from the 22nd-23rd century and he knows it by heart. Why would he know a German song from two centuries before he was born, it doesn't seem like his sort of music at all.

    Also, I thought Lister's guitar got ejected into space in Fathers and Suns. Did they retrieve it off-camera?
     
  12. HO HO HO I'M JMC

    HO HO HO I'M JMC Deck Sergeant

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    Just realised why the RDXII logo has "IIII" turning into "XII". It's the twelfth series of Dwarf, but the fourth series on Dave!
     
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  13. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    You're right. It was Lister's comment that threw me, because he said "I haven't got my guitar". Which I suppose is strictly true, he hasn't got his guitar because he lost it two series ago.
     
  14. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    So now Lister's had a punch up with Hitler and had a jam session with him. Only in Red Dwarf.
     
  15. sundayforsammy

    sundayforsammy Deck Sergeant

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    I am so surprised at how many forum members have never heard the 'Napsack on my back' tune before. The happy Wonderer I thought was so well known. No old scouts here then ?
     
  16. sundayforsammy

    sundayforsammy Deck Sergeant

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    Cool, that had me wondering.
     
  17. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Had anyone here heard of Mellisthingy before this episode? I'd never heard of her, and the fact that we had Kryten explaining who she is means Doug knew she was obscure.
     
  18. sundayforsammy

    sundayforsammy Deck Sergeant

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    Indeed I had. but then I do watch a lot of history programs.
     
  19. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    I'm no old scout, but the song had a vague familiarity about it.

    Nope, not me.
     
  20. HO HO HO I'M JMC

    HO HO HO I'M JMC Deck Sergeant

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    I think the point is, Vlad III had a contemporary reputation for cruelty that spread as far as Western Europe. He doesn't just seem cruel through the lens of a modern perspective. Regardless of the geopolitical background, I think his antics were considered beyond the (im-)pale by the standards of his own time.
     

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