Episode 2 - Fathers and Suns

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Urgamanix, Oct 11, 2012.

  1. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    If such a Chinese show existed I would wanna see it, I'd find it pretty funny personally.
     
  2. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    Personally I would say no. Just a representation of attitudes at that time.
     
  3. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    I don`t want to hold myself up as an expert on Tintin when I am certainly not. That book was written at a certain point in time and its attitudes towards Africa and blood sports reflect that. When attiitudes had changed I believe Herge himself attempted to adapt it and if he were still alive today maybe would do so again.

    It is unfair to judge the past via 2012 standards. If that book were written now then it would have an entirely different motivation behind it.
     
  4. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    As I mentioned in another thread, this is my last post on this topic as I think this thread has gone completely off topic again.

    I understand what you are saying but I personally think that the word `racist` is overused nowadays. It is obviously a very serious word to use and should be reserved for cases of real severity.

    For example, you quoted a newspaper article earlier in which the case of some people putting their feet in their mouths by complementing someone`s English ability was implied to be `racist`.

    Now to me it is utterly ludicrous that that might be given the same label as someone shouting, `Go back to where you come from you Chi**y F***er`.

    The fact that labels like, `racist, sexist and homophobic` are all overused can be seen from this very board as Red Dwarf has been accused of all of them. Doubtless someone could make the argument that series I was racist because Rimmer called Lister a monkey. It`s all nonsense though obviously.

    In very extreme cases it is possible to be racist unintentionally but I think that very often words like ignorant, ill-informed, misjudged would fit the situation much better. Being more flexible with the English language could only be a good thing as throwing the `racist` word around too often only seems to lead to cries of `political correctness gone mad` and it cheapens its meaning.
     
  5. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    Racism - N
    1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
    2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

    Source

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/racist






    Is "unintentional racism" possible? I unintentionally believed that these people were inferior to me, and unintentionally discriminated against them and prejudged them. Doesnt make sense. If someone is hateful or negative towards a race, its racism. If they aren't it isn't. Its black and white, excuse the pun. Why do people create such an unnecessarily huge grey area?
     
  6. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    I took your points on board, its just that I don't agree - in order to see racism you must see race. I've grown up multicultural, my job is multicultural, my blood is a mix of races and cultures, my wife is another race.
    At the end of it, I'm at a point where I just don't see race. I don't see a person's colour. Its like a black cat and a white cat, a ginger tabby cat. They are cats. I see people. People with freckles, spots, clear skin, long hair, short hair, blonde, brunette, white skin, brown skin, foreign accent, native accent, to me people are people, and these things are all just features that I use to distinguish individuals, i cant see how using any of them in conversation or comedy is racist. I can see how calling any of them stupid, worthless or worse is racist, implying that any of them is to be valued less than any of the others, yes. Other than that, no.

    Not giving someone a job because of their colour is racist, as is giving someone a job because you have to follow racial statistics is racist, writing that a boy felt insecure about being black and wanting to dye his skin white isn't racist, just like there being people out there that are white but talk "black" and wish they were black isnt racist.

    I could go on forever but I won't get any where. Its not that I don't understand your points or read what you have to say, I just don't agree with them. Just as you don't agree with mine - That is the reason the debate is going on lol
     
  7. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    The truly sad thing is that you've had to waste your time actually making such well structured, well supported arguments in 2012.

    It really is astonishing that people don't see how basic things like historical context matter when considering what might offend.

    Some of the analogies I've seen in this thread are truly mind-boggling.
     
  8. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    [​IMG]

    There's only one race, the human race. . .apart from The Dutch! :x
     
  9. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    I think that if any white guy would be offended by the black guy being angry at white guys is stupid, however I do think that the picture could be interpreted as racist because it is showing someone showing anger towards a race, so yes, it has a racist vibe to it but not enough to be offensive (IMO).
    I think the one that has the black man's face looking quite monkeyish is racist in that the artist seems to have gone out of his way to state that black people are less evolved (which isn't true - they evolved differently - their genes didn't change in giving a different pigment colour but they did evolve a higher peak of physical fitness and several other traits generally, that as a person who's skin burns easily and isnt very physically fit other than being able to lift a lot of weight thanks to many years of working out, I feel they are perhaps physically better evolved than I am, although I don't claim to know the science behind that, and I accept that I could be wayyyyy wrong) by giving the guy a face that looks like a monkey.

    The other one you can interpret by yourself. If snowy is saying that he doesn't look bright because he's black, OFCOURSE THAT IS RACIST, if he's saying it because he has a stupid look on his face or something then OFCOURSE IT'S NOT RACIST. But from the picture alone, you can't tell.

    The boy who bleached himself, if the story was saying that he was better when he was white, yes, racist. If it's saying that he FELT better when he was white, not racist. If I write that I feel like I look better when I am tanned and brown, that is not racist either. I know thats a stupid argument, however I have already used the stronger argument - people of both colouyrs do wish to be the other colour and feel that that colour is better. Just like some men feel being a woman is better and some women feel that being a man is better. they have operations and pay a lot of money. This isn't sexism.
     
  10. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    These arguments would have been amazing in the 50s. If a black person from the 50s could time travel to present time, they would feel like this is bliss, and would laugh at how pathetically people tiptoe abound the issues. They would be perfectly entitled to take revenge in a way, though none of the people of our generation are responsible for how the black people were treated back then. If I was responsible I would definitely kill myself.

    Why is it that the people on the "end" of these jokes find them funny and not racist, yet us here feel offended on their behalf? It is crazy to me.
    Also they have stated that were the boot on the other foot they would find it funny - "I wanna see the show with English Edward :-D"


    I'm not saying that it is a bad thing that you are so against racism - I just don't think that a joke involving race and stereotypes is racist or offensive and should never be when it isn't being negative towards the people of any race.
     
  11. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    Would a black person really think that today's world "is bliss"?!? You obviously do not read the newspapers! & where are you getting this information that "people on the "end" of these jokes find them funny and not racist"?!? & what is all this "us here" nonsense? Do you know the ethnicity of all those responding to this debate?!? :roll:
     
  12. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    That`s fine.

    I just think that both of the threads about the two most recent episodes have pages and pages about nature/nurture, racism, homophobia, depictions of religion etc. These comments originally did link up with the episodes but ended up going further and further away from Red Dwarf every time. If Doug does every read these forums then I bet he will be amazed at some of the parallels people have drawn about a couple of episodes of knock about sitcom.
     
  13. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    Back then not only could a white man do what he wants to a black man (same with women) but now a white man can't even call a black board a blackboard, plus people are too scared to appear racist let alone be racist, that when a friend of my dad was beaten and robbed in eat london, the CCTV showed that it was two known black criminals, they said that they won't be able to do anything because they didn't want to upset the Samoan community in the area (two years ago), sounds like bliss for them, right?

    And yes, I know you are... not white, simulant. You have stated that. And I treat you the same as I did before knowing that :roll:
     
  14. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    Where are you getting this info about the blackboard from?
    & who are "they" who said they wouldn't be able to do anything?

    Ask Smiley Culture if it is "bliss"
    Ask Azelle Rodney if it is "bliss"
    & its not just black people, ask Jean Charles de Menezes if it is "bliss"

    & are people really too scared to be racist?!?
     
  15. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Oh for goodness sake. :roll:

    Please thrill us by linking to the Daily Mail article where you read this old load of tot. Actually don't bother.

    It's mildly disturbing that you seem to be implying this is a bad thing.

    This is just a staggering synopsis of modern society!

    Disregarding the fact that this story sounds like a load of horses offal, the bolded bit is the second part of your post that I find disturbing. "Sounds like bliss for them"? In what way exactly? Because they are black and therefore enjoy a bit of violent mugging?

    You really need to think more carefully about your choice of words on here because you are starting to come off in a rather unpleasant light with some of these comments. Your coming across as exactly the sort of paranoid person you're accusing liberals of being from from completely the other end of the spectrum.
     
  16. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    :lol:
     
  17. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    I am a teacher - Although I teach languages to adults, I do sit through lectures and workshops for all teachers to try and pick up techniques and teaching tips, and this includes sitting through events aimed at primary and secondary teachers and teachers are not permitted to do many things you know. I can tell you, not from reading a paper but through my profession, that teachers cannot sing ba ba black sheep, or white sheep, however it has been suggested that fluffy sheep and rainbow sheep are adequate replacements may be used because "children like fluffy and colourful things". It is also true that if a school is not a C of E school, that they cannot have a nativity play because a christian play isn't fair on other religion-believing children. Even catholic schools in Britain are discouraged. I agree that children should be educated on other cultures, but they should also be able to celebrate their own lol. Children shouldn't be taught to be scared of mentioning other races and colour, they should be taught not to see the differences, but to view people as people. Or am I wrong? I'm starting to feel that I must be. Genuinely, I am starting to feel that I am wrong :S
     
  18. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    I know lots of teachers (mainly in primary education) non of this happens in their schools. :roll:
     
  19. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    We've discussed your profession already and I've already clued you in to the fact that's its identical to my own (with the difference being that I DO actually teach children as well as adults). There's therefore little point in playing the "speaking from experience" card. You're talking drivel or at best massively and quite possibly deliberately misinterpreting things and generally coming off as a very paranoid person.

    You're also passing off anecdotal evidence as fact when its very likely merely the continued regurgitation of urban legends picked up in the back of a taxi!

    Urban legends rarely do...but humouring Dodgebizkit for a moment and assuming that, say, one confused teacher with a failed understanding of policy implemented one of the absurd things he mentions and this in turn got reported in the Daily Mail or some other sensationalist rag. Does that make it a national problem or some sort of enforced doctrine that all schools are now forced to obey?

    No, it makes it an isolated incident caused by someone who knows that certain things aren't acceptable anymore but doesn't really understand why.

    Trying to turn it into a liberal conspiracy is the job of such newspapers and the sad thing is how many people know this yet still continue to believe what they read without questioning the agenda behind it.
     
  20. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    My friend works in McDonalds and has never told me that they clean equipment before they make the burgers, does that mean they don't?


    While this is very weak evidence at best, I'm not a lawyer so screw it. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120304012902AAlc1zW

    This at least shows that this IS happening. And No, I didn't base what I say on reading that, just like I don't base any opinions other than the reliability of Tomtoms on the opinions of taxi drivers.
     

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