Episode 2 - Fathers and Suns

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Urgamanix, Oct 11, 2012.

  1. Cloud

    Cloud Console Officer

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    Thats exactly my opinion. Trojan was good but i wasn't sure first time seeing it. with this i had good laughs the first time and liked it. Also the chinese whispers thing was subtle and only a few gags and not in your face like last weeks on hold background gag.
     
  2. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    Much better than last week, felt hugely more like older red dwarf. I laughed out loud a lot this week, whereas I didn't during Trojan. I give this 8/10. Only thing that bothers me is rimmer asked the hair of the outer to be blonde, but it was brown??? And we didn't get to see any boobs
     
  3. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    I think the idea was OK for a subplot but I found the scenes with the Taiwanese vending machine just embarrassing.
     
  4. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    I think the idea was OK for a subplot but I found the scenes with the Taiwanese vending machine just embarrassing.
     
  5. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    Fathers and Suns possibly makes my all-time top ten.
     
  6. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    Think it might just have been the way it was slicked back. Rebecca is definitely blonde!
     
  7. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    But wasn't the whole joke that Rimmer asked for a blonde and she came out brunette? Hence why he said "Wait a minute.." or something she appeared, as I recall.

    That's how I remember it, at least... she definitely wasn't blonde!
     
  8. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    They certainly need have programming issues in the Red Dwarf future, but then again that's always been the case, right back from Holly and that guy (I forget his name, but he had an IQ of 8000) he played chess with back in series 1. No I'm not referring to Queeg, (who was in two anyway) the one from the Scott Fitz-Gerald. (How come the name of the ship suddenly came to me, yet I forgot the name of the computer. Actually was it Keith?)

    Anyway. I noticed how the Medi-bot suddenly acted more sinister when Cat got the anaesthetic. By the way, you'd think Lister would make more effort to stop him, wouldn't you, but I guess the Cat would be more likely to win in a scrap. I think Felis-sapiens are inherently stronger, although I'm basing that on the proportional strength of ordinary cats.
     
  9. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    It's a good shout for making a top ten ever list... I'll wait till the end of the series before I revise my top ten list.
     
  10. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I was a bit surprised during the choice scene too, as I remembered her as being a brunette from the preview. However when she appeared I noticed what Seb just said. It's the slickage. (New word.) And possibly shadow.

    I also just saw a scene in White Hole where Hatty has her hair slicked back too, and it seems to have a darker brownish tone as well. It's not something I noticed at the time being so used to seeing her with her hair down. It still looks ligher than Pree's but then Hatty's hair looks thicker.
     
  11. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    I think the best red dwarf writing is a strong mix of clever writing and good writing, I think besides the badly explained plot, Trojan was all round good writing. On the other hand, fathers and suns was very clever writing. But one without the other makes it feel lacking. Both had great jokes, running gags that worked so well in Trojan, and jokes made from some very clever and well thought through scenes on FAS but the overall story was smeg because the writing for it was just bad, even though it was clever. Some things like silly slapstick and silly accents made it pretty bad in areas. Over all, both have been really good, Trojan is comparable to the weakest of S6/ strongest of series 7, FAS was a step down but was still good. Looking forward to the repeat tonight as this usually gives a better perspective of it, as happened with Trojan.
     
  12. Ally1990

    Ally1990 First Technician

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    I didn't see anything in this episode for it to be even remotely better than Trojan. Trojan was funnier, had a better plot and was much higher quality in general.

    Fathers and Suns feels like something from series 7. I didn't enjoy it a great deal and I felt it was average at best. I don't think I laughed out loud once and none of the scenes felt like classic Dwarf, although I suspect that was down to Lister being out-of-character.

    Overall, I'll give this a second watch but right now it's a 5/10, and I'm struggling to give it that.

    I think it'll be an episode that'll divide people.
     
  13. Almighty_crj

    Almighty_crj First Technician

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    RIMMER: (Dismissively) Fine. Holly there's something here for you. It's a video letter.
    HOLLY: Bung it on.
    LISTER inserts the cassette and a face, somewhat similar to HOLLY's,
    appears on the monitor. Except that this one wears glasses.
    HOLLY: Strike a light, it's Gordon.
    RIMMER: Who's Gordon?
    HOLLY: He's the eleventh generation AI computer aboard the Scott Fitzgerald. He's got an IQ of eight thousand.
    GORDON: Alright, Hol? (The voice belies the IQ estimate.) It-- It's Gordon.
    HOLLY: Awesome, his intellect, I'll tell you.
    GORDON: I'm just sending on the latest move in our chess game. My move
    is Pawn, right -- that's the little knobbly ones down the front -- Pawn
    to King four. Your move. Well, I'd better sign off now. See you,
    Hol. Bye. (Waits some time and the image still remains on screen.)
    How do you turn this off then?
    LISTER: (Turning off GORDON) You were playing postal chess with him were you?
    HOLLY: Well. A chance to lock horns with an intellect of that calibre I'd be a fool not to. Pawn to King four eh? He's a sly one.
    LISTER: So who's winning Hol?
    HOLLY: Well, he is really. That was the first move.

    Better than life, season II

    Now, Fathers & Suns may not have been the most classic Dwarfepisode but definitely a good sequel to Ouroborous (which I thought should have preceded this episode - Good excuse for repeats Dave!)
     
  14. pad_ehh

    pad_ehh Catering Officer

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    Funny, that sort of sums up how I feel about Trojan.

    I thought Trojan had a great plot (the sub plot should have been dropped) but it was badly executed. Rimmer's brother should have been introduced a lot sooner and spent more time on screen and more one on one convos/arguments with Rimmer.

    The subplot in Fathers & Suns funny in parts, but also could have been done differently, and the whole talking to the vending machines was done in series 8 and was bad then, and it should have stayed there.
     
  15. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    The computer Holly played Chess with was Gordan I think.

    Pree was ok but I found her kind of hard to hear sometimes, just the way she spoke the lines for some reason she didn't deliver them as well as say Cassandra in Cassandra.
     
  16. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    I'll watch it again tomorrow - I think I hated the 'Taiwan Tony' scene so much that it's colouring my view of the whole episode.
     
  17. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    I agree, and I suspect that most will be unimpressed and prefer Trojan. As often though my taste is different from the majority, and I loved Fathers and Suns much more. It's left me with a warm, fuzzy feeling inside rather than the slightly underwhelmed feeling that Trojan gave me.
     
  18. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    When I heard the Taiwanese vending machine, I wondered if anyone would find it offensive. I think it's amusing though when considering the fact that he is the last character in the line to answer the question that started "Is Chinese Whispers racist?" That's obviously the joke.

    And while the machine made me wince, it was mainly imagining how the people would view that scene nowadays, rather than because I think it's actually racist. (I don't, think it is. It's so over the top nobody thinks Taiwanese people actually sound like that.) Risky in this day and age, possibly, although Little Britain got away with far worse.
     
  19. Ianjk78

    Ianjk78 Second Technician

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    Strangely it reminded me a little of Duct Soup in some scenes, Series 7 was heavily
    critisized but I found Duct Soup to be a fine episode. Although I believe the first
    2 episodes of Series X is finer than any episode from Series 7 I found Duct Soup
    as one of the best Season 7 episodes and this reminded me of that in scenes but this
    is better :-)
     
  20. Rageofangels

    Rageofangels First Technician

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    After first watch I'd give it 7/10, and at present I don't think it was as strong as Trojan. I'll watch it later on tonight to see if my score changes.

    RAGE
     

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