Episode 2 - Fathers and Suns

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Urgamanix, Oct 11, 2012.

  1. longusernamebecausetheforumwantsone

    longusernamebecausetheforumwantsone Second Technician

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    Not bad, but I didn't like it as much as Trojan. Trojan really felt like classic Dwarf to me, whereas this was something else. I enjoyed it, and the whole Lister video scene was top notch, but overall this almost had a series 8 vibe to it. Almost.
     
  2. ReflexReaction

    ReflexReaction Third Technician

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    Watched 2 and 3 being filmed, this was the better one.... and it wasn't very good imo :-(

    Hope i'm wrong but i know i'm not... :-(

    trogan - 7/10
    f&s - 4/10
    10x3 - 3/10
     
  3. ReflexReaction

    ReflexReaction Third Technician

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    Watched 2 and 3 being filmed, this was the better one.... and it wasn't very good imo :-(

    Hope i'm wrong but i know i'm not... :-(

    trogan - 7/10
    f&s - 4/10
    10x3 - 3/10
     
  4. dazsin

    dazsin First Technician

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    Baffled that people are offended by the vending machine! What next people offended with the Welsh joke from series 6?!
     
  5. jaybo1973

    jaybo1973 Catering Officer

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    It was ok. Better than anything since series 6 but really didn't like the medi bot. That really felt like series 8. Bring back the skutters. The sets look great and how a mining ship would probably look but its so different looking. It just feels slightly off somehow. I for one prefer ship based episodes and the look of next week doesn't fill me with much hope. In short, best of dwarf since rob left but doesn't have the classic feeling.
     
  6. ben996

    ben996 First Technician

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    Judging by people on this forum the first two episodes have very a mixed reaction
     
  7. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    there was no over the top acting this episode which is good, but the whispers gag was abit flat
     
  8. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    First off, I'm really not understanding bedfordfalls opinion that the Chinese Whispers gag was offensive. Unfunny, yes, but offensive?? :shock:

    Anyway, I'm still finding I'm having to warm to this series. Classic Dwarf moments are there, but they only raise their head momentarily and far too infrequently.

    One element that's really irritating me is the laughter - I don't doubt the show was shot in front of a live audience, but why does it sound so canned? I was never aware of the laughter in the other series, but I find myself waiting for it all the time now. And it's not just that it sounds canned, it's that it comes over lines, almost predicting what the actor is about to say (a bit like Pree, ironically) and even drowning out the punchline itself on occasion. I also find myself wondering why the audience sometimes laugh at lines that are not only not funny, but aren't even meant to be funny.

    There's something that's not right about the look too. Too polished and over-lit somehow. In the thread for Ep1 someone described it as feeling/looking like a Saturday morning kid's show, and I know exactly what he means.

    On the plus, I very much started to warm to it towards the end and noticed the laughter less because of it. I think it also felt much more like classic Dwarf than Ep1
     
  9. ben996

    ben996 First Technician

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    I agree with the guy that mentioned the fact that Red Dwarf has never once tackled racism or mentioned it and the cast have acknowledged that, why bring it up now? Is Doug alright in the head?
     
  10. jaybo1973

    jaybo1973 Catering Officer

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    The funniest line I thought was by rimmer. That's not a man, its lister. It didn't get on laugh from the audience though
     
  11. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    It also "offends" people if an English man wears an England football shirt in an English football shirt during the World Cup. This post that I am writing is offensive to anyone who concludes that I think that people being offended by that are incorrect for being offended by that.

    The jokes in the show are just as offensive as what I just said in the same way. In the same way that it is offensive when English people are portrayed in US and foreign TV as having a very queen-like accent, bad teeth, a love of cricket and possibly stopping what they do to drink tea. Compared to that, alliteration with country and a name ( Taiwan Tony) and a clearly fake comedy Asian accent is tame.
    I am a teacher of English as a Foreign language, I work with people from all over the world. My wife is a Mexican international rights lawyer. I do a lot to stop racism, I can't stand it. I oppose racism and also the positive racism (affirmative action) that goes with it.
    Having travelled the world and lived things most people couldn't even imagine, I've seen some severe racism. I've seen people of all colours, and races (both of minorities and majorities) suffer severely due to their race, colour, accent (or even due to other factors including sexuality and gender), and every time, every single time I hear of that ridiculous level of PC nanny state stupidity that exists in this country( and limitedly, in the US),I can't help but roll my eyes and laugh.

    If there had been any attacking or insulting based on ethnicity, that would be different. There were observations and comedy versions of accents, there were no derogatory names given nor jokes based on anything based on any attributes that Asian people are born with (just about their common choice in facial hair style and a mentions of their traditional hats- fashion and tradition jokes). I'm sorry but, in short, I don't agree with you that it was offensive in any way. But if you or anyone else feels like being offended, by all means, be offended, and enjoy nanny state life, singing ba ba rainbow sheep with your offspring.

    Message ends. 2c spent.
     
  12. jaybo1973

    jaybo1973 Catering Officer

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    The funniest line I thought was by rimmer. That's not a man, its lister. It didn't get on laugh from the audience though
     
  13. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    That's a terrible analogy to draw. Yes Rimmer has often made throwaway remarks about other countries (Bulgarian pinups etc) and to be honest the older I've got and the multicultural my lifestyle has become the more I've disliked them but in a way they just accentuate his own ignorance.

    While his mentioning of the word "racism" made me cringe because of the reasons I've already mentioned about the shows history it was the actual vending machine that really left me offended and embarrassed to be called a fan of the show. That's not an ignorant character making throwaway remarks about other cultures that's actually cementing the idea that, in a future that has been established over 25 years as sharing a Roddenberry style sense of finally having moved beyond all of that, a multi-ethnic crew would use a vending machine programmed to be a racist stereotype from the 1970's! The worst aspect is it seems to imply that the characters themselves don't realise that the machine is racist...I'm not sure if that's meant to be the point or not but if it is it's just as baffling!

    The idea was lame, cringe-worthy and embarrassing . I've just listened to the podcast on G&T and you can tell that several of them feel the same and actually appear upset by "Taiwan Tony's" presence in the episode. There is talk that people were cringing about it in the audience at the time of the filming so I'd like to hear from anyone who was there about how it went down live.

    I don't believe for one second that Doug set out to produce this reaction in viewers but I'm really concerned if he didn't at least have some worries about it. I know that humour is subjective but I get the feeling the wrong sort of people will be laughing at that for all the wrong sorts of reasons.
     
  14. ben996

    ben996 First Technician

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    I agree, Doug should never write another series on his own, he makes far too many mistakes in his writing.

    While these two episodes have been okay, they have been far from classics and have had too many flaws, I mean look at an episode like Marooned or Gunmen, give me a flaw in either of them?
     
  15. Kipperbein

    Kipperbein Second Technician

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    Bingo ;-)
     
  16. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Based on the total ignorance displayed in your belief in this Daily Mail fairytale I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of your reply but I will say this: Thank you for completely validating my point just made about what kind of people would find Taiwan Tony funny.

    Point proven...and how much sadder I am for it.

    EDIT: Against my better judgement I did read some more of your Daily Mail-esqe rant. For the record it saddens me further that, sharing my profession as you do, you are so clueless and gullible as to believe the absolute tot that you read in newspapers.
     
  17. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    Well that's at least three times you've explained why you were offended, bedfordfalls, and I'm still baffled.

    I wonder, do you find my signature offensive on behalf of goths?
     
  18. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    I'm only concerned that RD mentioned race and racism so much in an episode, and am really confused as to why anyone could or would find the episode itself even remotely racist or offensive.

    On second watching I found the episode much more enjoyable but preferred Trojan over all.
     
  19. ben996

    ben996 First Technician

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    Not being picky or anything, but the stories in the early Red Dwarf episodes were always unique and different to every other sit-com. But Lister celebrating fathers day, Lister using phone shopping? These are plot points that would be in an american sit-com,

    Also what is with having many plots in an episode? This isn't an american sit-com, the old ones only had one story going on
     
  20. ben996

    ben996 First Technician

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    Me personally am not offended, and can't see how anyone can be??? But why did he have to mention race, after 56 episodes the show never mentioned colour, race nothing that was special for this show, poor Doug, fire him and get someone else in
     

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