RDXII EPISODE 2 - SILICONIA - DISCUSSION THREAD

Discussion in 'RED DWARF XI / XII' started by Seb, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    I was very pleased at the continuity where they found Lister's guitar.

    The sudden appearance of Siliconia was like Machina ex Machina. I didn't really get what had happened. So Siliconia is a space station, not an afterlife? Or is the point that it's both? Why did it suddenly turn up? Totally lost me on first viewing.

    I would've appreciated some mention of Rimmer being a hologram. Seems to make no difference to the mechifying process. Why did his mech-body still have an H on it? That wasn't really made clear.

    "MILF" got tedious quickly. I get it, it's a rude acronym.

    Liked the reveal with Lister lying on the couch.

    Liked the jokes about the Mach III, taking the piss out of smartphones. It's a bit contemporary but it works because it's not explicit.

    Overall, this episode didn't do much for me. Preferred Cured.
     
  2. Abe

    Abe Deck Sergeant

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    Jesus Christ, what noise have you people been listening to? Lister in Cured can't play just as much, it's just that Hitler happens to be good enough to kinda cover it up. There is no way you can convince me that both guitars in The Happy Wanderer were played well. Quit making up continuity errors that aren't there just because you want some to moan about.
     
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  3. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Really enjoyed this episode.

    Visually, even watching on a low quality stream I could see it was stunning. I agree that it wasn't the funniest of episodes (especially since so much had been spoiled already) but I don't mind a bit of gentler comedy when it's balanced out by an interesting story, which this was for me.
    I really liked the various twists of the story such as the mechs being hypocrites, Rimmer's fascinating and unexpected regression and story about the fish tank and Lister's heartfelt speech to Kryten. I'll take these over rapid-fire repetitive gags or broad humour anyday.

    Speaking of which...where this episode let itself down: Repetition of humour. Krytens: "Well, one of them...maybe" and a few others felt lifted from other episodes. A callback to another episode like Lister's guitar works. Just repeating a joke you already did seasons back feels lazy. I guess the Asimov's law joke was supposed to be a Space Corps Directive style joke, except it just made Lister seem stupid and Rimmer smart. That's subversion I guess...but not particularly funny.

    I'm also a little confused by the ending. Kryten rejects the upgrade...so the crew do as he commands when moments earlier they were going to throw him out of an airlock? Not really sure what the logic is there, or why the upgraded androids suddenly became non-militant. Upgraded peacenik firmware? It felt anti-climactic.

    Anyway, despite these grumbles I enjoyed the pacing and story and think it was another strong episode for this series. Looking forward to watching it again and filling in a few blanks.
     
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  4. Abe

    Abe Deck Sergeant

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    It reminded me more of the Boyle's law joke, except that any intended pun escapes me at this moment.

    So many extra layers are becoming obvious to me on a second watch. It makes the episode even better.
     
  5. mtullock

    mtullock First Technician

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    Have watched it twice. Far superior to cured imo. This was the ep I was worried about. The clean off looked in the trailer awful but worked ok.

    Negatives: not hot on a number of the mech cast (the female milf was weak), really not liking krytena current costume, in xi and XII most guest stars use older versions which look far superior. Some jokes rehashed

    Out with that it was solid. Was that a redressed Samsara set? Also I am glad siliconia was just the update beacon for mechs and not silicon heaven. Overall o would say in terms of Dave shows.....8/10
     
  6. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Kryten's expanding size is getting quite distracting. He looks like a tank compared to the other mechs.
     
  7. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    I'm not sure what I thought of this one honestly, there are some laughs here, and some interesting ideas.....but it's kinda an odd beast of an episode, I'm dunno if I like it or not. I might have to see it again to gage my feelings on it.

    Also is it just me or did it seem like Craig was kinda channeling Able when he was becoming more mech like?
     
  8. Trauntrian

    Trauntrian Third Technician

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    Enjoyed Siliconia first view but couple of points stick out first view.

    The whole Lister has a guitar / Lister lost his guitar years ago / Lister can kinda play the guitar / Lister is awful on the guitar plot holes are distracting

    They believed themselves superior to humans but converted the humans into mechs as a punishment - kind of a weird punishment

    Also why would the make the humans series 3 mechs, why wouldn't they have turned them into series 2 mechs

    James Buckley was in for like 2 scenes - needed more screen time
     
  9. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    It's far from the first time I've mentioned this, but how come the MILF didn't show any interest in the fact that they presumably very rarely if ever encounter humans. It's the year 3000000 and humans are long-extinct, but hey no big deal one has turned up.
     
  10. Trauntrian

    Trauntrian Third Technician

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    Was it "Les Col" as in Colander?
     
  11. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Lister losing his guitar isn't a plot-hole. He flushed it out the airlock back in Fathers & Suns, and they just retrieved it from space. Granted it seems extraordinary, but I wouldn't call it a plot-hole.
     
  12. bilbobagenz

    bilbobagenz Third Technician

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    THEY were able to find butler, using this same principle the MILFS found Kryten, using the same technique the Diva Droid upgrade ship THEY called Siliconia found the MILF ship.
    Also Lister singing the happy wanderer is not in tune but enough to be ok, think Lister was just strumming anything with Hitler filling in. IMO if you have more than one guitar you can play if you have 1 guitar you think you can play.
    I think Listers mask started to melt and bend a bit in the fighting pit. I think makeup had a big day getting everybody masked up.

    I think if Lister guitar was flushed out in the same direction as the Dwarf was moving then they would eventually come across it so no big plot hope there either,
    Once the mechs are all upgraded they are all equal so no more superiority everyone is finally equal
    hopefully thats all the holes filled.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  13. Ant E

    Ant E Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Yeah that’s so relevant to whether something is funny or not, isn’t it?

    What an utterly ridiculous comment
     
  14. mtullock

    mtullock First Technician

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    It does strike me as amusing that Listers search for Kochanski was superseded by his apparent search for his guitar! LOL.

    Like I say IMO quite a strong ep by today's standard, but the end felt a little weak. Would have preferred Siliconia (which I still dont believe is Silicon Heaven) didn't show up unexpectedly and then disappear again, perhaps there was a better out there.
     
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  15. Ant E

    Ant E Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Let down by end - but first twenty mins were great. Looked amazing too.
     
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  16. bilbobagenz

    bilbobagenz Third Technician

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    The ship is marked Diva Droid upgrade ship, it's just the Droids who believe it to be Siliconia, it's a deep space ship set to hunt down and upgrade all diva droid international Droids, this was sent out after Hudson was decommissioned and deemed unnecisary as better to upgrade than to shutdown.

    The crew got different belly screens wonder why, also why not all the same colour, and I loved the line where he admits not only is Kryren treated as a friend but also his mum, ie left to clean after him as he isn't responsibly for the mess he leaves behind
     
  17. djmcbell

    djmcbell Supply Officer

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    Well that was certainly interesting.

    Siliconia is the episode that I managed to see being recorded, and it was great to see the finished article. There was probably about half that was recorded on the night, and half that had already been filmed and we saw on the VT.

    The first scene was a pretty good one, and one that was on the VT due to the visual gag of cutting to Lister on the couch. We also got to see the CG guitar, untextured, float in space a bit, before the "Rimmering" scene (which took about 7 or 8 takes, including trying it with different camera angles, coming in from other sides of the corridor set, and the bit which I hope makes it into the smeg-ups where Robert exclaims "have you noticed sir that we're walking down this corridor and there are no cameras following us?" - followed by the camera crew calling to reset).

    The Starbug scene, I can't quite recall if there was some material cut there. I seem to recall the Cat getting in a joke or two at the "thinking for yourself" bit, which may have just been his "that's why I never go near it". The "turning into Mechs" scene also was an interesting one, because we got to see half of it live - until the crew got Mech'd - and then the rest on VT.

    The scenes with Kryten walking about the ship and the counselling session were all done live, and all the mechs truly were a sight to behold. True, on the night there were probably around 10 wandering around the place (the scenes with Lister, Rimmer and Cat as mechs were all done via VT), but this was also squeezed into a tiny corner of the studio (just next to the Starbug set) which was made to look massive. And at the end of the night all the mechs ran to Ray Peacock (who is apparently deathly afraid of the Kryten costume) and mobbed him.

    Other notable bits - I think a lot of Rimmer's "I like being a mechanoid" speech was missing on the night and recorded later, the cleaning fight is thankfully missing the crowd exclaiming "clean!" as Lister lands his hits, and, well, we're missing a fair bit from the ending where Rimmer and Cat appear, and we were all subjected to Lister singing "hey baby don't be ovulating tonight" - which really happened, we got an ending, a long ending scene with resolution and everything, and Rimmer ad-libbing some final lines. Be thankful that you didn't hear it. Eternally thankful.

    So what do I think of the episode then? I always thought the first half was excellent, and still do. Okay, maybe not excellent, but very good. No huge jokes (MILF, on the night, was brilliant but wore off after seeing the introduction scene filmed about 4 times) but enough to keep ticking by. I did get tired of the Rimmering scene on the night, but it's full of nice little jokes which I'd forgotten about. Lister being unable to say "smeg-head" was a great callback to series 4 and 6. And I guess this episode is full of callbacks (the guitar being flushed out of the airlock in series 10, smeghead, the Om song, "Hey baby don't be ovulating tonight" from the books, and the series 2 mechs having similar-ish heads to Kryten from, well, series 2). It hangs together well, by and large. And Rimmer deciding to succumb, seemingly so easily.

    But then we get to the clean-off, which I had a hard time rationalising. Would a space-faring society of mechanoids really resort to a "clean-off"? To which I guess I would grudgingly say yes, they would. I guess I've had a bit of a hard time accepting other "comical" groups of people in Red Dwarf, such as the Simulants from The Beginning. But then I guess Red Dwarf's had comical groups before, or groups of people with some comical elements. The GELF handshake from Emohawk. Lanstrom being nuts. Hudzen being nuts. The wax droids. Even Ace Rimmer and the Inquisitor had a few witty one-liners. I think they were just handled with more conviction before.

    And the sudden appearance of the upgrade station (which, in the recording, was cunningly played by the Death Star sporting a Divadroid logo). Just appears out of nowhere and McGuffins everything away. I like the idea of everyone upgrading to the latest model, making them equal (though would they still treat each other as equals?) but it's just a "hey, we need to get ourselves out of this situation" thing. Day is suddenly saved.

    So, Siliconia is a good episode. Mostly pretty good. And I like the idea of an update station, but can't we have alluded to it earlier, like say "hey, there's a Divadroid update station out there, but we'll swing by and get Mr Lister's guitar first" - then it would have made sense. It would still be slightly in our minds if it were just a throwaway remark and would have made the episode infinitely more palatable to me. As it stands, the only episode I can think of off the top of my head with such a sudden "and now we're saved" moment is when the heat-seaking balls destroy the Polymorph, and that was set up earlier in the episode anyway.

    But still, mostly pretty good.
     
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  18. mtullock

    mtullock First Technician

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    is that right? I was watching it on my phone so didn't see the Diva Droid logo! that is a nice touch!
     
  19. Underdunn

    Underdunn First Technician

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    Soon as I saw him strum that guitar this episode I heard the sound of thousand nit-pickers buttocks clench!!
     
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  20. DivineVarod

    DivineVarod Catering Officer

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    So does this finally explain why poor Rimmer wrote “I am a fish" all those years ago?
     

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