Episode 3 - Lemons.

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by KingR76, Oct 13, 2012.

  1. Cruel Slayer

    Cruel Slayer Console Officer

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    Aye!
     
  2. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    Why would Doug Naylor a white British comedy writer write a comedy about Mohammed/Islam? & who said that Lemons was "edgy" anyway?!? :roll:


    Would be a bit pointless saying that to a victim of 7/7 as they are dead. On a serious note that is a ridiculous example anyway, taking the actions of Islamic fundamentalists as some silly way of proving your point that one group of people who believe in a particular mythic creator are inherently more violent than another group of people who believe in a particular mythic creator. Its like saying the Westboro Baptist Church represent all Christians! :roll:
     
  3. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    Why would it be "far better"?!? :roll:
     
  4. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    A couple of classic comments in there. :-D
     
  5. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    Rimmerworld does bother me actually. Rimmer spending hundreds of years alone and his personality returning to normal the next week is a rare example of sloppy writing from Rob and Doug imo. I feel like Rimmerworld was a good idea but they cut a corner to make the episode make sense.

    I feel the same about Lemons as the use of the map to cover 6 months of walking was similarly clumsy and awkward.
     
  6. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    In our society we have come to look harshly on acts such as stealing, killing, infidelity etc. On the other hand we don't belive in stoning people to death for such things as adultery like in Islam. Open your eyes, our whole system of what is and what is not morally acceptable comes from our past of Christian beliefs. When i speak of society needing it to be more present I am not forcing the religion upon people but morality derived from it, the kindness and understanding, which is needed in a world that is increasing filled with people who don't give a crap for other people's lives and are happy to steal from people or stab them in the street.

    I don't know why it is always Christianity that is attacked and not all religion in general. People seldom attack Judaism or Islam like christianity despite the fact Christianity moves with the times. As far as I know, no homophobic or sexist remarks were ever attributed to Christ. I know a muslim guy who said he would have nothing to do with his brother if he was gay, and would think he was better off dead. By contrast my girlfriend's very religious catholic mother was outraged when she saw someone spouting homophic slogans at their kids. But it's Christianity that always gets it in the neck. These days there's talk of gay marriage being allowed in the church, there are female priests and probabaly gay priests if not now, then soon enough.

    The Good Samaritan, turning the other cheek, let he who is without sin cast the first stone... there are many examples of goodness and kindness in the new testerment, so please don't act like it's all about persecuting people.

    And by the way "twat" has been used in Red Dwarf twice, so as guidlines say, I'm perfectly ok to use it. So don't tell me to watch my language, you're not the moderator of this forum, don't tell me what to do.
     
  7. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    I have seen the film many times. The thing that made me feel like that is you think it's jesus all along and then it's like "oh he's just been mistaken for jesus christ" the whole idea of someone being mistaken for the messiah was sort of the idea in Life of Brian and i felt at that point, Lemons just lost on being at least somewhat original.

    Disagree if you like I just feel it was unoriginal and I'd prefered if it was the real jesus in some ways.
     
  8. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    I didn't say it was "all about persecuting people". I feel that morality is mutually exclusive from Christianity & I don't think a move to a more Christian way of thinking is required or helpful in our modern multicultural UK. What was so groundbreaking about Christianity's message anyway? Be nice to each other? Oh but in Christianity the reason for being nice is so you can live forever in a silly magical land in the sky!?!? :roll:

    & yet again people are bringing Islam into it to try & prove that Christianity isn't so bad really. As if that is somehow relevant? & if you think "its Christianity that always gets it in the neck" you really need to open your bloomin' eyes to the constant Islamophobia that is everywhere!!:roll:
     
  9. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    And I thought the controversy on the "racism" in Fathers and Suns was a headache........yikes!
     
  10. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    Indeed. I regret actually replying to posts in this and the Fathers and Suns thread now actually as I was the on who complained most vocally about going off topic in the past. A shame it`s happened again.
     
  11. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    Blame Doug! He started it by writing the bloomin' thing! :roll:
     
  12. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    Well let's just hope Entangled can break this chain of overblown controversy, it's very tiresome......people are offended too easily these days.
     
  13. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    You said "I hope that the average person is not a misogynist homophobe!" which is basically the same as persecuting people, and implying that this is the message of Christianity which is total crap. Just because some people use it in this way, doesn't make it so. Again I can't think of anything Jesus was supposed to have said that was mysogynistic or homophoic. Basically all religons were somewhat like this, because at the times they were formed this was the way people thought. But Christianity out of the main religions is the one that has moved the most to change with the times.

    And it's for precisely this reason it WAS groundbreaking as you put it. When other religions including the old testerment which is basically the Jewish Torah, are talking about a vengeful God, a message that tells us of a loving god who forgives us and the importance of being good to eachother was very groundbreaking (basically people were stoned to death for crimes - something that some Muslims still believe in - and Jesus didn't want this, saying let the those without any sin cast the first stone which means we are all sinners and shouldn't be judging eachother like this) The reason we're being nice is not just so we can live in a land in the sky. And what does it matter if it brought about ideas of how we could better live in harmony? I don't have to believe in the land in the sky to live be a code of being as good a person as I can.

    Now of course you can seperate morality from religion, but Christianity formed a lot of our moral guidence in the first place and I for one like to live in a world where people don;t want to stone you to death for minor infractions, for instance. Sorry but the messages did have a huge impact on people moving away from the ideas of hashly punishing eachother and "an eye for an eye" mentality which again was from the old testerment, before Jesus Christ was born. Again you don't have to believe in God, or Jesus, but the messages that are attributed to him are positive ones that helped improve society and would make society even better if more people lived by them regardless of religion. This really has nothing to do with "multicultural UK" or whatever liberal trendy catchphrase you want to use.

    Btw, I meant in comedy Christianity always gets it in the neck and is blamed for everything wrong in the world. Islamaphobia is very real but most of the time it's far right people who are the only ones to have a go. But the more liberal minds like to have a go at Christianity, really because it's the religion of the west who screwed up the world. It's not the religion it's the people in the western world. And who would dare having a go at judaism? despite the fact that a lot of the percieved wrong in christianity comes from that part of the bible, the one where God will strike you down and stuff.

    Also, don't get me wrong, I'm not a passionate Christain, I'm Agnostic leaning towards not believing in a God or afterlife. But doesn't mean I am too stubborn to see where our moral guidence came from and the fact that a good message can be distorted by people. It's US, people are crappy. And without stuff like moral guidence we would be worse off. People are very open to positive or negative influence.
     
  14. misterjohnsparks

    misterjohnsparks Third Technician

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    I thought 'Lemons' was fantastic. Lister getting 'Jesus' in a headlock then calling him a knob (and meaning it as a sort of complement) was brilliant and had me in tears of laughter. To me it was series 10's best so far, and its humour right up my alley, like series 1-5.

    MORE. I WANT MORE!
     
  15. Cruel Slayer

    Cruel Slayer Console Officer

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    It didn't have me in tears, but I certainly appreciated it. To find out people who have changed the world massively for the better (I'm not arguing this in the case of Jesus. You believe it or not) are also just ordinary, flawed folk like the rest of us can be sobering and heartening. I thought it a highlight of the episode, even though it turned out he wasn't that Jesus.
     
  16. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    Exactly! Let Muslim/Sikh etc comedians do jokes about their own religion 8)
     
  17. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    It had me in tears. . .tears of despair. . .:roll:
     
  18. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    That is true, though when a muslim did a show recently (Citizen khan) about his experience as a muslim, the multicultural stuff went out the window (since we are multicultural then a muslim can do a show about his religion, right?)as people got all offended - probably mainly white people.

    But I just feel people attack ideas that a lot of religons have but make it like it's all unique to christianity. And often it's the old part of the bible they're really attacking which is not that much christianity.

    Also if you do attack islam you're seen as being a right wing racist (note simulant talking about islamaphobia, which is a word that sums up paranoid intolerance, all the while presenting his own views about Christianity as sensible) but you can attack christians and you're just a modern, liberal free thinking person. No hatred implied where if anyone acted the same about judaism or Islam they would have to tread carefully to not be labeled a anti semite or islamaphobe.
     
  19. misterjohnsparks

    misterjohnsparks Third Technician

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    Just stop watching it incase the remainder of the series makes you feel even worse.
     
  20. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    Wrong. There is an undercurrent of Islamophobia in our western society! Look at comments about 7/7 which has been used as a pathetic example of why Islam is a more aggressive religion than Christianity. All religions have their flaws but this discussion is stemming from an episode written by a white British comedy writer about the Red Dwarf posse meeting Jesus. Therefore it is obvious that the discussion is going to be predominantly about Christianity. :roll:

    Anway, you can't just ignore the old part of the Bible. Didn't Jesus tell Christians to follow the old laws of Moses; "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them."
     

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