Episode 3 - Lemons.

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by KingR76, Oct 13, 2012.

  1. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    Thanks for the advice but I will ignore your advice as I enjoyed the first episode & hope the show becomes good again in the remaining episodes that are still to be broadcast by the satellite channel Dave on concurrent Thursdays at 9pm. :x
     
  2. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    yeah and like I said, islamaphobia has connotations of being a bigot, but you can basically slag off Christianity as much as you like and there's no sense of bigotry at all, whether it comes from a westerner or a Muslim. Of course there is a fear of islam over here, but you go to an islamic country and you wouldn't even be allowed a christian church there, so it's obviously a resistance to whatever is seen as being alien to the predominant culture of a country. And like I said our culture is largely based on our Christian past so people will resist an opposing country and some people will go to far. It's not like most people here are crying out "infidel!" though. It's not like islam is more tolerant of Christians.

    And yeah some old parts of the bible stand, but the message and tone of Christ was very different overall.

    And all my original point was, there is much good about the original undistorted message of Christ, whether you believe he was the son of God or not. I don't see it as cool, or intelligent to act like it's an evil, because denying any good came from it at all is in my view very stupid and unimformed.
     
  3. a1ph4riu5

    a1ph4riu5 Third Technician

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    I feel the same way. It's the most jarring difference when you watch the repeats of Red Dwarf V, right after a new episode has gone out. The cast played everything so much straighter back then.

    There was something quite haunting about the situation they were in, because Chris and Craig were doing serious acting, as well as the comedy. Lister's loneliness at being the last human alive, and Rimmer's despair and frustration at being dead, and still being a pathetic, hopeless person. Without the jokes, one of Rimmer's classic monologues about how his family never loved him and how he always fails at everything could be quite moving. So when Lister delivers the punchline, it's more powerful than if Chris Barrie is reading his lines like "My Family" in space.

    I'm not even sure why they're laying everything on so thick. They always had a live audience in the old show, so going back to that isn't really an excuse. Maybe they're all still extremely adverse to doing anything too much like "drama", after the reaction to series seven?
     
  4. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    When did I "deny any good came from it". :roll:

    Not sure what the point is of saying "It's not like islam is more tolerant of Christians"? I guess you either mean It's not like Islam is more tolerant of Christianity or It's not like Muslims are more tolerant of Christians. Either way it serves no real purpose in the argument. Are we to be as intolerant as SOME mulsims?!? :roll:
     
  5. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    well what's your point then? All I was saying is that a lot of our sense of morality came from christianity and it's sad that I see people being less and less concerned with caring about other people and I think if the messages of christianity were more present even if we all didn't even believe in a God, we'd be better off.

    What I mean by muslims not being more tolerant is that it is human nature to be suspicious of other cultures/religions, hence islamophobia. By our society actually has a massive section that recognises this phobia and tries not to be racist. Sometimes goes way overboard in being politically correct. In islamic countries you couldn't have a church and i don't know how many people would question "are we being fair to Christians?" the point of this is as it goes, we are not that intolerant of ther religions when compared to other countries. You are always going to have a bit of it where ever you are.

    anyway, who cares the one thing we can agree on is that lemons was awful?
     
  6. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    But we are not less & less concerned with caring about each other. Look at the charitable work people do across the country etc. Look at the aftermath of the London riots when communities came together voluntrarily to help clean up. Of course the media predominantly reports the worst so no wonder people thing society is doomed. But people have always harkened back to some perceived golden age where we could all leave our doors opene etc. & even if it were true I don't see how the message of Christianity would help. You appear to be making a link between the demise of Christianity & the apparent drop in societies ability to care for one another. Being nice to each other etc can quite clearly exist as moral concepts without the C word being attached, indeed I think that would put a lot of people off!!!!! :x
    We need to embrace secularism not return to an outdated Christian world!!! :x
     
  7. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    Actually a proper practising Christian is unlikely to be misogynistic. At least no more than many people in so called 'secular' society, bearing in mind everyone has their weaknesses to overcome. And while they might disagree with certain lifestyles they consider sinful, they shouldn't see that as a reason to persecute or hate the person. Unless you believe those pesky so called Christian Fundamentalists. (I'd argue many of their teachings are fundamentally not very Christian at all.)

    Anyway, not the thread, so I'll say no more about that subject. I didn't mean to say so much as it was but some of this is close to my heart and I'm irritated by certain generalisations based on a mouthy minority.

    Lemons. Yes a good episode overall as I said, although it had it's weaknesses. I wasn't keen on much which was said in the Jesus rant, and I was a tad worried where it was going, but the twist rectified that somewhat.
     
  8. Cruel Slayer

    Cruel Slayer Console Officer

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    So long as we continue to blame the religious mindset for the atrocities committed by people, no amount of secularism will prevent us from justifying more atrocity.
     
  9. bigtimedwarfer

    bigtimedwarfer Second Technician

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    Rarely a truer word spoken. Christian is synonomous with religion in this sennse though.

    Strange to critiscise Doug for writing about Christianity for the reasons mentioned above. Not to mention that depicting Mohammed as he depicted Jesus (the one with Judas at the end) is a good way to wind up dead or in some sort of police protection programme.
     
  10. Cruel Slayer

    Cruel Slayer Console Officer

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    If the fact that secular minded, areligious people frequently discuss which religions or cultures are more dangerous isn't evidence enough that a secular point of view can quickly initiate a slide towards oppression and atrocity, I can't imagine what evidence is needed.
     
  11. bigtimedwarfer

    bigtimedwarfer Second Technician

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    You would have to demonstrate that these secular countries ARE becoming more oppressive and commiting atrocities AND that their secularism is driving the increase in said traits. Otherwise you are expressing an opinon. Not providing evidence at all.
     
  12. The_Original_Cat

    The_Original_Cat Third Technician

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    Some of you really need to chill out ffs

    I wasn't that impressed with it myself I can't really remember anything of note about the episode. I enjoyed the first one and some of the second one (Lister talking to himself I found really funny) so hopefully there will be an improvement in the 2nd half of the series.

    If not then at least they tried.

    No need to view it as an apocalypse if you hate it there are far worse things going on in the world.
     
  13. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    Simulant doesn't cry. Blood drops from his eyes.:twisted:


    Edit- removed due to not wanting another huge debate - give me my life back guys!!! :P
     
  14. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    The voice of sanity there.
     
  15. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I will say this about Lemons:

    Although I personally found it enjoyable and probably the closest to Classic Dwarf of the three episodes aired so far. I have had less desire to re-watch it than the other episodes. I think it's a bit of a sleeper and the sort of episode you almost forget is coming when you re-watch a series.

    I think it is quite funny that people thought it would be so controversial prior to its airing. I would have predicted very few Red Dwarf fans being offended by it had I known the plot in advance and it does rather seemed to have panned out that way. It's strange that nobody seemed to foresee any controversy arising from the previous episode when that, for me, was always going to be more divisive.

    I'm struggling to see why some people hate this episode so much...however when I see Simulant saying that Meltdown was previously one of his least favorite episodes it at least shows something of a pattern in the style of humour people find funny. I think Lemons is definately in the style of Meltdown (although not as good, but then I don't expect a series in its 25th year to be as good as it was near the beginning).

    Fortunately I love Meltdown. So I like Lemons.
     
  16. bigtimedwarfer

    bigtimedwarfer Second Technician

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    There's no place for sanity on 'tinterweb!
     
  17. karnie

    karnie Supply Officer

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    I just realized something.... Lister has a very uncharacteristic reaction to Jesus, telling him to continue on with his work and all despite all the harm it's caused, considering his OWN experience with being a deity of a misdirected religion. Remember how broken up he was to learn that the Cat people mistook his Fiji plans and created holy wars around them, that millions of them died in his name? Seems odd that he would then tell Jesus to continue on doing what he's doing despite "some" people doing "some" stupid things in his name... Really? SOME? Just to save Christmas? I knew something didn't sit right with his reaction.
     
  18. Chooky88

    Chooky88 Third Technician

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    Hey I am a Christian. I thought it was generally funny. I laughed out loud in a few bits and enjoyed the amazing luck of watching a braw episode. Of Red Dwarf some of you DO need to chill out. It's classic Dwarf and like you and me it's not perfect. But it's still Red Dwarf and I am thrilled there is still new Dwarf to come..... . Bloodywhy can't you just be grateful they made new stuff. As Jesus said "There's just no pleasing some people"
     
  19. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    If he radically altered history that much then he would have never existed, would he? Not to mention that Lister may see things differently now then he did when it was younger and realizes that it's a necessary burden so to speak. Don't think it's out of character at all really either because he pointed out that to many people's lives it's a positive influence where as Lister only heard about the suffering his religion caused......he likely sees it from a different angle.
     
  20. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    Lister's also had first had experience of how doing something in the past that may have seemed positive at the time can have an adverse affect on the future. With that in mind it seems pretty in keeping with his experiences that he'd want Jesus and Christianity to continue as was historically the case when there's a distinct possibility that the alternative future without Christianity might be at least as bad if not worse.
     

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