RDXII EPISODE 3 - TIMEWAVE - DISCUSSION THREAD

Discussion in 'RED DWARF XI / XII' started by Seb, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. Goit_84

    Goit_84 First Technician

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    I don't know why it's hated so much, I'm watching it again and I think it's fine. It's nowhere near series 8 or 7 level bad. It's completely fine.
     
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  2. Chris D

    Chris D Engineer

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    There's a lot of vitriol about it, but I don't think it's representative of the wider feelings of the episode. It even has some fans (me, for example, I personally think it's better than Siliconia, but not as good as Cured and Mechocracy).
     
  3. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    More representative then you think, check the IMDB score for it.
     
  4. Chris D

    Chris D Engineer

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    I've seen it (and voted for it myself) but it's hardly a huge sample size at this point. It's currently rated lower than any Series 8 episode. That doesn't seem right.
     
  5. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    I remember most of RDVIII being a lot funnier than Time Wave. In fact, I think there are some superb gags in RDVIII. Other than Pete Part 2, I only really remember being bothered by the series-long arc of it. It just wasn't the concept I'd fallen in love with.

    If you take the revived crew and cliffhanger away from Only the Good, that's pretty much how I see half the Dave era episodes. And Time Wave is my least favourite Dave era episode.
     
  6. Chris D

    Chris D Engineer

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    That's sort of case in point. Timewave currently scores lower than Pete Part 2. I refuse to accept that's an accurate reflection!
     
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  7. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    My instinct is to put TW over PP2, yeah. Probably PP1 as well. But I would need to rewatch both and see if they're as bad (or even worse) as I remember.
     
  8. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    Yeah, likewise. It's become a Doctor Who-style show for me now. I'm resigned to the fact that there'll be highs and lows and I won't like all the episodes.

    I might make an effort to do an "objective Red Dwarf marathon", where I watch classic eps with an equally critical eye.
     
  9. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    That's great news. I do hope Dwarf is still picking up new fans.

    Also, I often wonder how I'd feel about the newest eps if I could watch them as a child, which is how I saw seasons I-VI. I'm less accepting and more critical as an adult.
     
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  10. Callisto252

    Callisto252 Supply Officer

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    The IMDB ratings for RD seem to go up over time, though I'm not sure why that should happen with a larger sample size. Perhaps a little distance makes people think more fondly of an episode? Series XI is certainly doing better than it was this time last year. As ratings currently stand, Only the Good shares the same rating as Cured and Siliconia (all on 7.5) and that just seems bizarre to me.

    I think Timewave is mainly unpopular among the more hardcore fans. It seems a wider, more casual audience viewed it as much funnier than the first two (my brother and kids definitely thought so).
     
  11. Underdunn

    Underdunn First Technician

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    Honestly, you're all going to do yourselves an injury trying to collect data from multiple sources! If you HAVE to know whether your opinion is in the majority or minority (and I don't know why you need to!) then maybe just stick to the community you're having the discussion in! Otherwise its an endless errand.
     
  12. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    I agree, I mean why do you need the validation for liking it? I like lots of old b-grade schlock, but I don't need to validate it.....I just enjoy it. If you like the episode, then good, it just means you're getting more enjoyment from this series then I have!
     
  13. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    For me i remember watching Series 6 as a kid when it was first broadcast and i loved it, it was my favourite for many years that i watched over and over.

    Now days its not so much my favourite, that privilege has gone to series 5 but i could understand any criticism people would have with 6 even though i think its still fairly close to the stories and comedy of series 5.

    I don't know how kids see the show now days but id be surprised if it would gain the same sorta cult status that the early shows did in the 90s if Red Dwarf XII was how the show had always been because i feel maybe at times the balance the older show used to have with sci fi and comedy has now tipped more towards comedy with the new ones so its hard to believe it would gain the same cult fanbase from its strong storytelling.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
  14. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    How bad this episode is or isn't is up for debate, I honestly found it worse then all of series 7, BTE and worse then Dear Dave......comparing it to series 8 however is trickier, I would probably place it as being about as bad as Back in the Red Part 2.....which means to me it's worse then Back in the Red Part 1, Cassandra, Krytie TV and Only the Good.......and given how bad most of that is, you should have an idea of how poorly I view it. That said that's subject aswell as I've seen people say it's their favourite episode, and other call it worse than Pete Part 2....neither I truly agree with.
     
  15. UltraDevotee

    UltraDevotee Catering Officer

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    So then halfway through the final new Red Dwarf series for at least two years and after the simultaneously flummoxing and somewhat simple, fluky end of Siliconia is Timewave any good? I personally have got to go with the Dwarfers on twitter who have told Doug and Richard how it is a quality episode. I am not totally sure that it is one hundred per cent as amazing as the Rob Grant co-written years but it is certainly very strong. This episode was the one that got mixed set reports so I was quite worried about it though I do understand there was some misbehaviour from a couple of audience members so maybe that was the real issue. Granted I do agree it is somewhat "pantomine-y" but for me it still works successfully as a very funny and entertaining Red Dwarf episode. Perhaps it got mixed set reports because the way it was acted in front of the audience looked too wacky and "pantomine-y" but in post-production it became a much superior episode because it was assembled so well.

    Timewave feels like a blend of classic Red Dwarf with them founding Planet Rimmer and then in Starbug experiencing the timewave but also with a good twist of something fresh and original with the fascinating sci-fi/comedy concept of a ship where criticism is illegal. I thought it was genuinely very funny and Johnny Vegas was really funny as a guest star "Crit Cop." In fact, though I understand one of the other guest stars got some stick off a silly audience member I thought all the guest stars were very good and obviously although they were "pantomine-y" it still ultimately worked well because it was such a wacky idea anyway so that style suited them fine.

    But anyway the "banned criticism" sci-fi/comedy concept was really great, original and provided all sorts of comical value. I especially liked as well as the scenes with Johnny Vegas, the prisoner punished for tutting and the "draining" scene where there is so much character-based humour from Rimmer. I suppose it shows how without any criticism a society cannot function and advance but the fact that (correct me if I am wrong as I have only watched once) there is a line about how before the ban was introduced there was too much criticism and disputes between the crew members it shows that excessive criticism is not conducive to a successful mission too. If that is the case that there is a line included like that, that is really perceptive and thought provoking writing by Doug as really obviously you have to have criticism amongst people but it should be constructive in nature so that a society can advance but also not have a bad atmosphere and too many disputes. But anyhow, maybe I am thinking about it too much as even if I have not remembered correctly that line about there being too much criticism before the ban stopping the ship functioning, it was still really funny and a very successful idea from Doug. But if that line is in there like I say I think that is well balanced and considered writing from Doug.

    I really enjoyed the first half of the episode and when the adverts rolled halfway through I was really concerned that the second half of the episode would have a too simple and fast resolution again. But no, I thought the pay off in Timewave was superior to the one in Siliconia and it was pretty clever but not too convoluted. I really liked how Doug wrote the criticism "draining" scene and how Rimmer had to use his inner critic to defeat it and then with the help of Lister had to destroy his inner critic. There were so many great twists in this solution to the story including the captain (?) then after the "draining machine" is destroyed, restoring the different crew members to their specialist roles and so avoiding crashing into Planet Rimmer. Then at the very end of the episode I loved the final twist where the crew member is about to restore the ban after his puerile drawing is criticised and then the Dwarfers have to scarper. The pay off(s) instead of being too simplistic was complex enough - but not overly complicated - to make it a very satisfying end to Timewave unlike Siliconia though maybe when I re-watch I might enjoy the end to that episode two even more.

    Although perhaps I still might feel that Cured is the very strongest episode so far still, I personally enjoyed Timewave more than Siliconia. This third episode simply had a proper and more fulfilling ending. As I have said in my last couple of reviews, it is so amazing that Doug can keep inventing new ideas almost thirty years into Red Dwarf's existence. It is like what I wished for with this new 2017 run that while series 11 had a greater emphasis on the vintage compared to the new, this twelfth series has a greater emphasis on innovation while still with enough classic elements to compliment it perfectly. So far, half the series gone and it has been very enjoyable with two episodes standing out and from what I hear the next one may be even better and up there with Give and Take! Really looking forward to Thursday but it is sad that there is only half the series left but like I have said wonderful that we have been spoiled with two series a year apart of pretty fantastic Red Dwarf.

    8 out of 10.
     
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  16. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    Can someone explain what the bad behaviour from the audience was? I keep hearing it mentioned and would love to know the goss!
     
  17. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    From what I heard it involved heckling the warmup comedian....if there are other things I dunno.
     
  18. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    that warm up guy earned his money warming up for that dreck. I still claim my 'tell me twice' joke is the worst. Simply because, unlike others mentioned, you're not even sure it is an actual joke, at least with the others you can tell it was a try at humour, however awful. Another shoe in is in the episode 'ouroboros', I think. In the bar scene a bloke says 'he must be thicker than a ticket touts wad'. Not only is it a terrible joke, but its said with all the conviction of Harold shipman's defence lawyer. There is a definite art to identifying RD's worst jokes, and the fact that there is, speaks oceans about some of the scriptwriting
     
  19. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    My understanding is that people were getting ticked off because there were a lot of technical problems on the night, and the audence took it out on the poor warmup guy. So you really aren't wrong, he really had his work cut out for him with this episode!
     
  20. Underdunn

    Underdunn First Technician

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    Yeah there were, the minute Ziggy walked onto the stage in full costume every member of the crew deliberately destroyed the equipment in an effort to save their dignity.
     

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