RDXII EPISODE 3 - TIMEWAVE - DISCUSSION THREAD

Discussion in 'RED DWARF XI / XII' started by Seb, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    It really is one of the worst episodes Red Dwarf has done, it was VERY series 8! To be fair I think Chris was decent here (inspite of the "save the Rimmer moon" joke being milked to death), and might have been the only relative bright spot in an otherwise terrible episode. Danny was the worst he's been during the Dave era seeming like a far more mean spirited, misogynistic jerk then ever, and only to push the "criticism" angle further. And the less said about the guest cast the better......I mean I don't like Johnny Vagas at the best of times but his criticgasm was straight out of series 8!

    An all round bloody awful episode, I thought Doug had moved past stuff like this......but clearly I was wrong. I give this trainwreck of an episode a 1/10!
     
  2. mtullock

    mtullock First Technician

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    I have a theory about the Doug Naylor / rob grant relationship. I often read about people wishing rob would.come back as he had to be the funny one..... I actually think the funny one may be Doug. However rob (as well as being funny) was the voice of reason. Doug has said on camera that Rob was unreal for wanting rewrites and saying "no we can make this better" right up to filming. Is the problem with Rob going that the original quality control has gone?
     
  3. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    I do wonder sometimes if people ever bother to read the site this forum is attached to.
     
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  4. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    That is likely, I think they are stronger together they they are apart......and episode like this would have never flown when Rob was still around. I think Doug needs a grounding force to work with, even if it's not Rob Grant himself!
     
  5. SweatyChimpBoy

    SweatyChimpBoy Second Technician

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    Id agree with this. I think Series 8 would never have happened in its current form if Rob and Doug were still writing together. The dip in quality is so evident so it can't be a coincidence that Rob left and then we got 7 and 8.
     
  6. Ant E

    Ant E Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Clearly none of you have ever seen the utterly appalling “The Strangerers” if you seriously consider Rob the “voice of reason”!!!!!
     
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  7. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    I'm still reeling from how bad this episode was, I wasn't expecting anything this bad. It made Dear Dave look like a masterpiece honestly. I think Red Dwarf needs another new writer since Rob Grant won't return. There are many talented comedic writers out there and I think Doug needs someone else to work with if even for qaulity control reasons. Also maybe making to series' back to back wasn't the best idea. I was pretty positive series 11 but the rushed endings implied that the scripts needed a little more tightening.......but this just isn't acceptable!
    Yeah......there is no question that Rob's solo work is worse. It does show how both of them were far better when working together!
     
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  8. Underdunn

    Underdunn First Technician

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    I *think* that the reason Doug came up with the whole 'Time-Wave' concept instead of just going down the simpler route of the ship popping through a worm-hole or something was to cover that actually. The implication is that everything that was carried into this century via the time-wave will only be here for a bit and will then be pulled back into its own time when the wave retracts again... or something... It's all there in Krytens tedious dialogue at the start. So fortunately these sub-rentaghost characters will all naff off again soon.

    Interested to hear that there were problems on recording night for this episode. Bits of it were apparent to see on screen. I got the impression that maybe the episode came out too long. That scene just before they went to the ship (where they were in star-bug waiting whilst they travelled towards it) felt very weird, like it had been added at a later date, with Kryten announcing all the plot information we'll need that otherwise we would have watched slowly play out organically when they got there "Oh by the way, I've checked and they have this law on there that you can't criticise, just fyi" - very odd. And in that same scene there's a moment when Rimmer suddenly enters the room and starts talking but we don't even see him - we just inexplicably stay focused looking at Lister for a couple of awkward beats. Peculiar.

    Then of course there's all the stuff with the sand from 'Planet Rimmer' - it felt like it had a purpose originally, felt like it was building to something. We get to them being in prison and Kryten suddenly realises he can use it to help them escape. Makes sense. Like how the plot-point of the luck-virus in Quarantine was called back and they used that to escape... But here they use it, cause an explosion, open the door and then IMMEDIATELY are just arrested again anyway. No point to any of it. Might as well not even have been in there. Wasn't funny, wasn't clever, wasn't anything. Again its as if there were supposed to have been scenes after that before they were eventually caught that had to be dropped and instead they just had Jonny Vegas turn up instantly. Bizarre.

    A mess from start from finish this one. Just a mess.
     
  9. RainbowGazelle

    RainbowGazelle Second Technician

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    Wow, they should rename this episode 'Marmite'. Other than the overuse of "save planet Rimmer", and Cat making too many jokes about leaving Rimmer, I thought the episode was very funny. Cat not understanding not to criticise the Critcop seemed very in character, and I thought the overall pace in general was far better than either of the two previous episodes. I think XI and XII in general needed better editing and pacing, but this was good by XII's standards so far. It felt very 'Classic Dwarf' to me. I'll watch it again, but it's at least a 7/10 for me.
     
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  10. Ant E

    Ant E Flight Co-Ordinator

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    First fifteen minutes were good. The camp guy ruined it for me. Camp aint funny anymore. Not a good ending.

    Is this the recording where the audience were really rude to the warm up guy???? Anyone know which date this was recorded on? Enjoy reading the G&T/Gazpacho Soup set reports.
     
  11. Paul Taylor

    Paul Taylor Console Officer

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    I have occasionally watched later episodes of Red Dwarf and wondered whether some of Doug's comedic sensibilities are stuck in the sixties and seventies.
     
  12. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    I think 'Marmite' would imply people are more divided on this episode then they actually are.....seems most people here hate it, with only a few people who (like yourself) enjoyed it. I really REALLY can't see how this felt "classic Red Dwarf, unless you count series 8 to be classic. I don't me to criticise (oh the irony) but I just can't see how it is. You do make a good point about the pacing however, that is maybe the one thing about the episode that wasn't completely broken.
     
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  13. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    Camp can be funny.......depending on how it's used, and this really wasn't well used. I actually must confess camp cured Hitler was amusing because it all seemed to add to his eager to please and insecure personality in the episode.....here they just had a guy doing a Paul Lynde impersonation and called it a day!
     
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  14. Paul Taylor

    Paul Taylor Console Officer

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    Like many others, I was a bit put off by the over-the-top camp captain. I find that sort of thing aesthetically and audibly tiresome these days. I didn't have the same reaction to 'Cured's camp Hitler, who I found a delightful character. That aside, I liked the premise and the humour, and I won't let the one flaw distract my attention from those things I enjoyed. A couple of gags were over used; Cat's insistence on suggesting leaving Rimmer in deadly situations and Rimmer's disproportionate concern for the fate of his planet, but Doug does seem to hammer some gags home too vigorously. I've got used to that.
     
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  15. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    This episode to me just embodies nearly all of Doug's worst traits as a writer, I actively hate it!
     
  16. 2X4B-523P

    2X4B-523P Third Technician

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    I rather liked it, a nice satire on the 'hater' trend, I think it might be an age thing, but I'm heading toward my 50's and the internet knee jerk reaction to opinions is nicely mocked here and I favour such an approach as sharing is part of life and if we sugar coat everything we won't learn...oops sorry there appears to be a high horse under me.. You just can't post a piece of criticism online without being called out as a hater or worse a forum just gets into name calling rather discussing the original post. (gets off horse) .Not that that would happen here. Cat again gets given something to do, Rimmer's past becomes the Chekov's gun, still no plot centred on Lister. The crew who were free of being criticised clothes just looked like fancy dress rather than bad, maybe if they were something offensive or unPC we would have covered other areas of criticism rather just the simple social constraints or bad decision making. Chris Barrie proving he can excel as evil, helped by some nice direction choices, Doug's sometimes standard shooting has approved this year. The guest cast were fun, Johnny Vegas relishing the chance to get excited. Cat putting his foot in it was a classic move for that character. It's the second story where the crew are strapped to a machine to change them, the corruption of science from Kryten's crazy replacement to the Psi Moon creating Rimmer personal nightmare has always been Red Dwarf's best way of taking the Mickey out of trends and 'progress'. If this had been classic Red Dwarf Rimmer's inner critic would have chased them round the ship firing forked lightening from his accusing fingers and being a fan of scary peril on the show as it heightens the tension and the jokes I wished he had. A great show let down by the representation of the concept and a tagged on weak joke at the end, I'm not a hater, there is a lot to love here.
     
  17. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    The moral about some criticism being important is fine, it's a good point to make......but this episode totally pooped the bed in it's attempt at making it!
     
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  18. wavesd

    wavesd Third Technician

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    I have only watched it once, but it is a thumbs down from me, which is disappointing because I enjoyed the first two episodes quite a lot. I get the sense that there were some productions problems; to me this had a very series 8 feel to it.

    Two things actually took me out and made me feel like I was not actually watching Red Dwarf; firstly was the camp captain wearing David Walliams costume from the theatre show episode of Spaced? And secondly the saggy chest joke is not Dwarf, I know the crew letch after women, but nasty comments about women felt a bit 1990's Loaded or Men Behaving Badly*.

    *I used to like Men Behaving Badly at the time, saw an episode recently and could not believe how atrociously juvenile and unfunny it was; absolute trash. In that line, I also saw an episode of The Mary Whitehouse Experience, again which I used to love, and that was even worse, shockingly awful - like watching the most immature of 11 year olds making jokes.

    It's not finished.
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    .
    .
    .
    .
    It's finished.
     
  19. 2X4B-523P

    2X4B-523P Third Technician

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    you're scheissing me #nothitler. The irony that this episode is not favoured would make Alanis Morisette reach for a spoon/knife/spork.
     
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  20. 2X4B-523P

    2X4B-523P Third Technician

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    The Boob joke was a tad..well a lot unpleasant. The idea was that Cat would go to far and get them arrested and maybe the original rant was more personal to Johnny Vegas's structure, but was deemed to nasty as he's so lovable.

    Red Dwarf has often mocked sexist attitudes not too well, Parallel Universe though funny implied that females that went against the norm of girly cliches would be men, not themselves. The captain for want of a better phrase should be played more straight, the full episodes would have a whole better if there was a sense of unease from all of the crew, a tension where everyone just really wanted to rebel and tell you how bad your choice of socks were today. Imagine a 'happy' world where everyone was forced to not say a word that just might be critical, reminds me of Dr who's the happiness patrol a personal favourite which despite a sweet based monster is quite un-nerving.
     

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