Episode 4 - Entangled

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by dodgebizkit, Oct 24, 2012.

  1. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    Isn`t that part of the problem? Another joke that seems like a less funny re-write of jokes in previous series.
     
  2. Whizzkid

    Whizzkid Catering Officer

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    No I definetly remember hearing them called BELFs - Biologically Engineered Life Forms.
     
  3. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    I wouldn't call that a re-hash of an old joke, just a running theme. Like Rimmer always getting the directives wrong or Cat always been pleased when something terrible befalls the former.
     
  4. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    I just watched it back and Lister's dialogue in that scene is "They're called BEGGs - Biologically Engineered Garbage Gobblers".
     
  5. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    The latter has such a wide scope for humlur I would agree that it needn`t be a re-hash.

    If Rimmer were to start getting directives wrong again now then it would seem like re-hashing old stuff imo.
     
  6. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    They only had Starbug for the first "troubled" model shoot which was mostly useless because the shot it wrong. Apparently the Epic Red camera isn't the best for filming models and you need to light them differently. For some reason they just didn't have Starbug on had (I believe they rented it) for the second shoot.
     
  7. Steely

    Steely Skutter

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    No one else has mentioned it and I cant believe it hasnt been discussed further since you posted it.

    Its something that I spotted during my first watch of the episode and couldnt believe they didnt pick up on it either during the filming process or the editing process. Lister should have been well dead according to the timer.

    But back on topic, I found this episode to be what I describe to most people who are not hardcore fans of the show as classic dwarf.
    There are a few holes here and there but the storyline itself flows well and the jokes are funny and very well delivered.
    I like most people have been waiting for Red dwarf to return for many years and I do consider myself to be more "hardcore" then most others in regards to my fandom of the show (if you dont believe me, then check out my avatar ;-) Thats commitment!)
    So far after 4 episodes I'm finding that series X is a great return to form.
    Trojan was a great opening episode and set the tone for the series.
    Fathers and suns was a great follow up to ouroboros and makes me no longer cringe at the fact lister is his own father.
    Lemons was not bad, but not great, to me it was the story driven episode that every season has to have, not so many jokes but the story itself has its place.
    Entangled has just confirmed to me that doug knew that he had to return to the more "classic" feel of the original episodes to pull off this new series. If it was anything like series 8 and BTE was, we could not ever imagine a series 11 being commissioned.
    But after the effort of the first 4 episodes so far I have a strong feeling that Dave will commission another series.
    (I cant see them not making huge profits on dvd/blueray/itunes sales, and since these profits are what drives new series being commissioned, I am very hopeful)
    The characters are just like they have always been
    Lister is his old laid back self
    Rimmer is still driven and always fails like only rimmer can.
    Cat is just that, a cat, always gets the best one liners and pulls them off flawlessy.
    Kryten is back to what he should be, a way to explain the technical stuff with some classic one liners thrown in.
    If the two remaining episodes continue in this fashion I will consider series 10 to be back in the realm of series 1-6.
    Which is great considering the disappointment of series 7 (episodes minus rimmer) 8 and the horrible BTE which wasnt funny at all.

    Red dwarf is back! I couldnt be a happier dwarfer.
     
  8. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    Thanks for the clarification on Starbug.

    I'm not sure what's to discuss about the timer thing... it's been mentioned, I didn't notice it, obviously a continuity error but there may well have been a technical limitation or something since this was apparently a "very troubled" shoot. Perhaps they had re-film a lot of it at a point when they didn't have the count-down capability? Who knows.

    From what I've heard, many of the scenes from this episode were not shot on the same night and apparently nobody who went to the actual dedicated filming saw anything after the scene where they evolve the monkey into the woman. That was all shot separately.
     
  9. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Basically it's farting on cutlery; I can't quite convince myself it's only fiction to find it funny :eek:ops: ;-) But as I said, I can overlook it and not let it spoil my overall enjoyment of the show.
     
  10. Cruel Slayer

    Cruel Slayer Console Officer

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    Had the cutlery drying scene been overly done, as though it was expecting a prolonged laugh, as Red Dwarf has a bit of a history of doing, I'd have hated it. As a relatively quick throwaway visual gag, I think it's fine. Slightly amusing. Not especially clever, but throwaway gags don't need to be.
     
  11. captainlisabeth

    captainlisabeth First Technician

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    I really wanted to like this episode, but I just didn't get on with it. :-( I think maybe I need to give it a watch again. It didn't help that I missed the first four minutes because goddamned TIVO demanded that I stay on a particular channel until four minutes past nine. Ridiculous thing.

    I have the TV to myself for the whooooole day tomorrow, so I'm going to give it another go. I'll bet people talking over the top of it yesterday didn't help. :-(
     
  12. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    More related to the whole series rather than ep4, but I find the explosion at the end of the opening theme amazing. Can't wait to see it on HD Blu-Ray.
     
  13. dazsin

    dazsin First Technician

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    Seems like the general consensus seems to be that Entangled is another great episode from Series 10. Really pleased that the critics seem to be liking Red Dwarf 10 too
     
  14. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Its not Doug Naylor's fault that you are unable to pay attention. Now that you've decided you hate this series though, can you do us a favour and do what you did in series 8. Stop watching?
     
  15. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    Get a proper viewing of it and I promise you will love it
     
  16. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    GELF's like Simulants are an established part of the Red Dwarf universe. The idea that by "re-using" them Doug Nayor is somehow being lazy is a lame and vapid accusation with no real substance. He is using established characters from his own universe, established characters who will obviously share traits (such as being traders for example).

    Simulants were first introduced in 'Justice', yet I don't recall any howls of derision from fans when they re-appeared in the Emmy award winning Gunmen of the Apocolypse, or just a few episodes later in Rimmerworld.

    People need to get over the idea that Doug has to come up with "new aliens" every week...if he did that people would whine about the universe being "too busy". GELFs were introduced for a reason, they are there to move along the plot. They aren't the focus of the story and they never have been.

    I can't think of any other show where the writer gets castigated by his fans for re-using characters he created. It's called continuity...something else you all moan about!
     
  17. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    They also thought the spoon drying thing was the best joke!

    I think IGN would feel right at home at ERRA. ;-)

    Not sure why you'd think that. If anything they shouldn't have any.
     
  18. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    There`s a lot more to it than that as I`m sure you are aware...

    The scenes in Emohawk were very similar to the scenes here with the crew trying to barter their way out of trouble. I believe also that the intention was to have Rimmer pretending he couldn`t speak English in a way very reminiscent of Beyond a Joke but that this was very sensible cut in the edit.

    Re-using the GELFs isn`t the problem. Re-using them for very similar scenes and situations is.
     
  19. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    But that's what GELF's are for!

    Just like Simulants are for endangering and trying to kill the crew, GELF's were created as a plot device for the crew to do some trading with. The alternative is for them to conveniently find what they need on a derelict every week and that's taking coincidence to the extreme!

    I'm afraid you're going to have to accept that GELF's are there to be traded with and when they appear those are the types of scenes and scenarios you're going to get. Just like when simulants appear you're going to get them trying to kill people.

    It's not as if Doug just said: ah screw this, I'll just have Kryten say "kakakakakakakakaka" and have the crew make jokes about throat infections. The two scenes were entirely different from one another with completely different jokes. Complaining that Doug wrote a scene featuring trading with the show's established traders is really rather silly.

    It's his universe and there is no reason he shouldn't use his characters established character traits.

    What next? Complaints about Lister being slobby? Hell, I saw Lister drinking a beer in this episode! What a lazy rip-off!
     
  20. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    Personally, I enjoyed the scene with the BEGG's precisely because it was so reminiscent of the scene with the GELFs and it felt like the kind of thing we haven't seen in a long time on Red Dwarf. It was a big positive in the episode for me, not a negative.
     

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