Episode 5 - Dear Dave

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Slainmonkey, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    Series X is almost certain to go down as my third favourite series ever after series 5 and 6.
     
  2. mccollough

    mccollough First Technician

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    Currently, my episode rating for series x is...

    Trojan - 7/10
    Father and suns - 5/10
    Lemons - 8/10
    Entangled - 9/10
    Dear Dave - 5.5/10

    So series average before The Beginnning is... 6.5

    Given that The Beginning looks set to be a 10 pointer, I'm estimating a 7/10 score for the series overall.

    Which puts it third in my rankings!!

    Series 3
    Series 5
    Series X
    Series 7
    Series 6
    Series 2
    Series 1
    BTE
    Series 8

    I don't have proper series ratings yet, but I do aim to give each episode and series a rating eventually :-) So I can decide mathematically which series is best :-)
     
  3. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    I've not really thought about where this series lines up with my favourites so far but I guess we're enough into it to start looking at it that way, now. I guess it'd be the following order;

    Series 6
    Series 5
    Series 7
    Series 10
    Series 4
    Series 1
    Series 3
    Series 2
    Back To Earth
    Series 8
     
  4. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    My full series order is as follows:

    6, 5, 10, 7, 8, 1, 2, 3, 4, 9
     
  5. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    I'd say, at this point, there are a few things hampering the episodes ... Don't get me wrong, I have loved every episode of RDX and the extreme diversity of them is really a great plus and its good to see it divide fans as it shows that it is affecting people.

    The problem doug is having is pacing. In the earlier episodes doug is jamming too much stuff into the food cupboard and the bread gets crushed and everything got covered in ketchup when he forced the door closed. There was a lot going on and important scenes for the plot were cut short and scenes that deserved more time were rushed so they couldn't have the full impact. In later episodes, particularly this one, dear Dave, not enough stuff has been recorded, and where always scenes are made long with the intention of cutting them down for the show, the scenes weren't cut because there was a lot of space to fill.

    The other point is direction. In previous series, there are a lot of great camera angles, close ups and such, and this series seems to be filmed in the style of series 1/2, mainly fixed cameras and wide shots, although I think partially this could be because doug doesn't want it to look filmy or like bte, but at the same time it does feel like it needs it at times, it worked in series 3-8. Again, the aspect ratio is different now. 1-8 were made for the little square tvs of old, RDX is filmed for wide screen envelope tvs,you can see in the scene where lister is on the couch that they did get a close up of him but they got his whole body, because the width of the shot may have looked weird on this aspect ratio, so maybe that's an explanation for that. I think generally doug isn't brilliant at directing it (not just at camera direction but generally) and he should be co-director with someone who is famed for great comedy direction.

    That said, he did an amazing Job on BTE but bte wasn't a studio filmed sitcom series, it was a featurelength on location, green screened, drama comedy come movie type show. Different thing completely. Not sure if doug fully directed that himself or not but I think he could use help on the RD series in that respect.

    In sure he will read all the stuff the core fans have said, what was liked, what was criticised, and how many times a certain member rolled his eyes, he will also read general public casual fan reviews made by people who aren't sad geeky losers like us :P and he will take a lot from that (mainly that a lot of you are negative critics who can't be pleased :P but also a lot of things he can take on board) and when he writes series 11 he will hopefully do what he did with RDX- deliver :-D he has delivered in my opinion. But with 11 maybe he will iron out the creases and drop the few things that wrent so good, pace the shows better and make a series perfect!

    I know I sounded critical too but I do think doug has made an amazing comeback (as in he came back after so long and made rd work- not that he came back after some things wrent good- unlike lost if you I love series 7. 8 and bte although I agree that 8 was the worst series) and RDX is up there with the classics and the next series could come in and blow is away.


    Did I mention I'm really buzzed for The Beginning???:lol:
     
  6. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Ah, sorry, missed that, must've gone over my head. :-)

    I didn't find the accent so bad, myself. Although it was fairly obvious she was played by an British actress. But to be fair the words you highlighted there were actually said in a way fairly reminiscent of a French girl I know. Albeit it with perhaps with a tad more emphasis and distinction at times. ;-)

    Personally I've been reasonably happy with the vending machine voices. It's only been the one they call Taiwan Tony (along with the one played by Tony Slatery in 'Only the good') that have ever really grated on me.

    I must admit I'm still rather partial to the one that reports his lisp to the skutters in series 1...Of course now there are no skutters to report such traits too *sob*.
     
  7. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I wouldn't get my hopes up as to any of that happening. Listening to the interview with him on Dave he pretty much admitted to isolating himself from criticism and praise. He basically says (and I'm paraphrasing here) that "there are always going to be people who hate the show and think its terrible, there are always going to be people who love the show and there are always going to be people who used to love the show and now don't like it anymore".

    I found that last sentiment rather troubling to be honest because it reflects a slight dis-attachment and rather "hey-ho" attitude to people who used to really enjoy your product and have for some reason stopped doing so.
     
  8. Kipperbein

    Kipperbein Second Technician

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    I disagree, in my view he is merely following an accepted philosophy amongst many creative people - which is to rely on your own instinct and create that which you think is best ;-)
     
  9. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    That's all very noble but we aren't talking about Doug ignoring atrocious reviews of Red Dwarf episode 1 here, we're talking about him openly accepting that a portion of the fan-base who loved what he clearly regards to be the best Red Dwarf he ever produced now dislike, or have even been upset by, elements of his current product...and just seemingly shrugging it off as life.

    For a show like Red Dwarf it's important not to disregard your core audiences views because Doug isn't producing high art here, he's producing a television show where sustaining that audience matters.

    That he is apparently content to leave unaddressed the areas of concern and controversy that have come about with this series while simultaneously using Twitter to pick fights with obvious trolls and try to one up them with DVD sales figures is a rather odd way behaving, in my view.

    The unpopularity of the Blue Midget Dance sequence didn't escape him, I'm sure the disliked elements of this series that he apparently thought would be hilarious won't either. I wouldn't just be shrugging my shoulders at that if it was my product being criticised in that way.
     
  10. RobeH56

    RobeH56 Third Technician

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    If Doug Naylor - or any writer - started trying to write what he thought the hardcore fans wanted him to write, the result could well be beyond awful. I've read some terrible episode ideas on this forum from people who reckon they know far, far better.
     
  11. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    You're not really listening to what I'm saying, which isn't anything like how you've characterised it above.
     
  12. RobeH56

    RobeH56 Third Technician

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    No, I agree, he shouldn't just shrug off criticism from his core fanbase. Given the 'nostalgic' elements of series X so far, I don't think he has. And there haven't been any more dancing spaceships or rubber dinosaurs.
     
  13. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    doug has taken the show back to what made it great but then he has also thrown in new out of place aspects which don't quite fit well

    which oddly enough doug has done every time he has brought the show back
     
  14. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Putting in fan-pleasing 'nostalgia' (and note how you yourself had to put that in inverted commas) isn't the same thing as not listening to criticism or worse, choosing to shrug it off.

    I don't want to criticise Doug too much because I think he has genuinely improved on a lot of the faults of 8 in this series but it's still worrying to hear him be so blase (almost sounding annoyed) about it in that interview. Nobody likes criticism but when its constructive and well intentioned it shouldn't be just shrugged off and I hope he isn't doing that.

    His Twitter activities during the fan-community rumblings that episode 2 brought about were perplexing to say the least. All the criticism he could have addressed by clarifying his intentions and he chose to pick out an obvious troll and boast about DVD sales? Odd.
     
  15. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    the dispensing machine humping was badly done and even richard naylor on twitter said he was worried about this episode with fans and i can see why

    it had some really good stuff in it though
     
  16. RobeH56

    RobeH56 Third Technician

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    Perhaps the WUM just got on his nerves. He's only human, and that guy was especially obnoxious. I dunno, without being able to talk to the man himself it's difficult to say.
     
  17. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    The thing is, in order to find that Tweet Doug must have searched Twitter for 'Red Dwarf'. The Tweet wasn't made or addressed to Doug, it was seemingly just some random guy stating that Red Dwarf had never been any good on his own Twitter account.

    Now wouldn't you think that if Doug was searching for Red Dwarf criticism (or praise) at that time he'd have found something rather more pertinent to the episode that had just aired instead of choosing to tackle some guy's random opinion and make an awful argument involving Justin Bieber?
     
  18. RobeH56

    RobeH56 Third Technician

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    I thought the guy had Tweeted him direct. I'm still a Twitter virgin in many ways. Yes, that is slightly odd behaviour, and hints at insecurity.
     
  19. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    That is perfectly true. It's funny how fans of the same show don't always enjoy the same things in it, or agree with some of the criticisms directed at it. I guess we all love the show, although we might not all take the same things out of it. :-) As for the vending machines, I found them to be mostly cringeworthy last night! lol

    For all the rights and wrongs of the new series, the positives and the negatives, it is awesome having this level of interaction with fellow Dwarfers over the new episodes. I'm very much an old school fan, right from the original airing of series I back in 1988 when I was still in primary school. lol I didn't get internet access till late 2006, so this is the first time I've really been able to interact with fellow Dwarfers during the airing of a new series. :-) I signed up here near the time of BTE, but I deliberately stayed out of discussions about that as BTE wasn't the reason I signed up, and I didn't want it to appear as if it was. So this is definitely a cool experience for me! xD
     
  20. Dsnow_con

    Dsnow_con Third Technician

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    I realize this isn’t a terribly productive comment, but it completely floors me that any long-time fans of the show would think this series is better than the classic stuff.

    Anyway, this episode was alright. Had a few laughs and I liked the series I-II style lost and alone in space feel. It was unfortunately far too predictable and seemed to retread a lot of old ground. The scene with Cat advising Lister not to think about his ex was amusing, but it was a total rehash of the scene where he consoled Lister over losing his arm. Plus the ‘total slag’ ending was an utter bomb- not only could you see it from a mile off it relied on a sexist pejorative for the punch line. :-(

    And boy, I can’t believe some of those lines made into the final script. “He means charades.”? What a strange and pointless line. And the ‘careful dunker’ bit, what on titan was that? Like sure, careful driver, careful dunker, I can see how it makes sense but it’s not even remotely funny! *shrug* On the plus side I quite enjoy the parking fine bit, predictable as it was, and I thought the vending machine stuff was good silly fun.

    So yeah, overall another mediocre, hit and miss epsiode. I enjoyed it well enough, but it's pretty telling that I'm not going to get my partner to sit down and watch with me.
     

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