Episode 6- The Beginning

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by ghastly98, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Absolutely, I'm one of them. I certainly don't care about the irrelevent conclusion to a pantomime scene from a pantomime series though...especially as its clearly established that nothing of importance came of it. "Nine years later" was one of the most satisfying things I ever saw in a RD episode. 8)

    Duane Dibley?

    If you don't think that was a shot at RD obsessives have a listen to your Six of the Best CD. :lol:
     
  2. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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  3. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    the episode had some silly moments like a simulant that is apparently friends with the crew and they don't batter an eyelid when he points a gun at them but direct him to lister... no real conclusion to series 8 despite the promise... apart from that, a fine episode.
     
  4. Seymour_Clufley

    Seymour_Clufley First Technician

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    Well, I agree he was dreadful in Series VIII, but he could have been "done" better here.

    PS. It was Series VIII. X means 10, V means 5.

    PPS. I really like that you said "Egads!" - it's a funny phrase.
     
  5. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    How many times, man? Hoguey isn't a simulant! He's described as a rogue droid; it's akin to Kryten or Able showing up and threatening them. It's established that he only does it out of boredom and they've actually played games of mini-golf with him :-)

    It's called misdirection. People know the episode is going to be about deadly simulants so they assume Hoguey is the threat when its then revealed that he's not and is in fact familiar to the Dwarfers and almost an annoying friend.

    Maybe watching the episode sober will help you to get this!

    I think Doug probably realises that its one of those things where he'll never be able to satisfy everyone. It's like with the ending of LOST. People spent so much time speculating about how that would end that ANY ending would have disappointed some people (Hell, look at the people disappointed that the Hollister theory didn't come about - and that only had a matter of days to gestate!). Doug was on a hiding to nothing trying to explain it and, as Simulant rightly points out, it wouldn't have added anything to the comedy, whereas this joke actually did. Serious sci-fishows like Star Trek have even taken this route (Worf explaining the difference between Klingons in TOS and TTG for example). I don't think people need to take it seriously in a sci-fi COMEDY. We should be able to laugh at ourselves as fans of a comedy show.
     
  6. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    "It's taken my bitterness, and Cat's cool. He's in a hell of a shape! He's looking so geeky, I don't think he could even get into a science fiction convention!" ;-)

    I have to say, I loved the alludings to series VIII's ending, whilst deliberately not expressly clearing it up. It actually surprises me that some fans hated that. That was done for the fans, in my opinion.
     
  7. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Exactly, it's not even technically sending up the fans, it's more sending up the show's previous failure to address the cliffhanger. :-)
     
  8. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    It is baffling to me how some people actually felt the allusions to the series 8 ending was deliberately insulting to fans. :? To me, it was clearly a sign of endearment and affection for the hardcore fans. But then, it does appear that Dwarfers seem to be split into those who love it, and have always loved it for what it is, a sci-fi comedy sitcom, and those who seem to expect it to be dialogue and plot-wise, comparable with a more serious sci-fi series. They seem to expect it to be "high brow", when in fact it was never that, and never pretended to be. In fact, one of the hallmarks of the show, is the deliberate eschewing of all serious sci-fi elements, it's a sci fi PARODY! How come some can't see that? lol :-)
     
  9. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    Hang on, so they HAVE met Hoagie several times? Got to be honest while it is a funny idea, it WAS really confusing and I felt it could have been handled better. Even something like Lister saying "Oh not you again. It's been 4 years since you showed up, I had hoped you'd forgotten about us" Then you would think,ok they know this droid from the gap between VIII and this show.

    Instead I couldn't decide if they were talking about him or rogue droids in general. It felt like i'd missed some episodes in which this droid was a regular character. Seems a weird way to introduce him. Also if he's always challenging them to duels across time and space, what exactly happens in the duels? He just sods off for a year or 2 and then comes back again?

    You may think I'm stupid, but I just feel they wrote that very well and it's so out of place with the way RD is usually written, I don't blame anyone for not getting it.
     
  10. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    [​IMG]

    Lovely foreshadowing mnemonic in the background there!

    The show has been full of neat little touches like this that have largely gone unnoticed. Seb pointed out elsewhere that one of Rimmer's classmates is also featured on the cover of Lister's magazine in Dear Dave as the JMC's new poster boy - and that there is apparently a photo of Kryten and Camille in the bunk room!

    Also, that holographic projector...I'm sure I've seen it in earlier episodes lying about. All nice little touches in continuity that show how much thought has gone into the show.
     
  11. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Lister called him by his name when he got down from the bunk (although to be fair this ws slightly covered by laughter) and from that point on the reaction of the others became clear. To be fair he then did go on to say pretty much what you've suggested, discussing the history of this droid turning (and apparently some others) turning up to issue there meaningless challenge. It was also implied by Hogey that the Dwarfers had even played mini-golf and other games with them....after all, they're just crazy droids, not simulants (as a certain person keeps insisting). Watch again, maybe you missed some of the dialogue first time around but the explanation is there and the worry over the Dwarfers initial reaction quickly melts away when you take it in.

    Well you did miss some episodes, we all did. They occurred in the nine year gap. I think its important to watch this series conscious of that gap. Doug has said he was going to use it as an excuse to introduce new, fresh elements to the Dwarfers backstory. Arguably this was the first of them.

    As I say, watch it again and I think you'll see it is actually pretty well signposted from the moment Lister addresses Hogey. It was probably just your initial reaction to assume that the show was taking a silly turn towards series 8...but all it really amounts to is a couple of minutes misdirection.

    I could even see Hogey becoming a regular guest character. I understand your point that it was differently written but that's the benefit of the nine year gap: it allows Doug to spring surprises like this on us and introduce new folklore and mythology to the show.
     
  12. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    I was a bit baffled by the Hogey scene the first time I watched it, but totally got it on my second viewing. It was very obvious that Lister knew who the character was, and I just took it as a given that the inital interactions with the character happened in an "off-screen episode". It was very quick-fire comedy, and I think the scene would have lacked comedic edge if it went to actual details about how Lister and the crew came to meet Hogey. It would have been unnecessary to bog the scene down with all that, and I think it works perfectly as it is. :-)
     
  13. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    What i missed on the first viewing is that lister says his name, which does make it more obvious. But I still think he could have said something like "Oh not you again" when he first saw him, and when he says "you're always challenging us to duels across time and space" and hoagy says he isn't, lister could have said something like "You are! this is the 12th time in 5 years!"

    Also when cat gets woken up and he says "You want lister" that made it seem to me like hoagy didn't know them, cos wouldn't he know all the crew so why is cat telling him he wants lister going to make a difference? Either he would already know he wanted lister or he would just say that he wanted any of the crew.
     
  14. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    Yeah I missed hoagy's name being said. Still have me gripes about how it was written though but hearing his name helps.
     
  15. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Just a point of note on that: I believe this is only the second time in Red Dwarf history that Cat has referred to Lister by his name.
     
  16. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    I do see what you mean here, but it could actually be explained in a very simple way. Hogey points a gun at both Cat and Kryten, yet both are completely unphased by that, and tell him to go to Lister. Surely if they hadn't encountered Hogey before, they would be shocked and alarmed by him pointing a gun at their faces. So, it could simply be that Cat and Kryten are tired of his wanting "duels across time and space", and direct him to Lister simply to get rid of him. :-)
     
  17. Reznor

    Reznor Guest

    lol awww look at you go bed so angry :P

    ps was i supposed to lol to this post? or the one above? i lol'd to this one because it's so typical you specially the "feeble" part oooo zing :P almost as funny as the time you found that other thing funny but not quite as funny as the first thing that was intentionally funny?? :P
     
  18. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Don't worry your little head about it, my little Space Weavel. You've reacted exactly as predicted. :lol:
     
  19. Reznor

    Reznor Guest

    lol yes you getting angry and me commenting on it classic prediction hah nostradamus like even :P

    lol awww he even went and edited his post after i msged hah to add "little space weavel"
    there you go bed put in the extra bitter effort :P
    btw you keep saying little? I'm 6 foot 9 how tall are you? My Little human see how that works? since you are literally little?? lol
    cant wait to stand next to you at dj and you have to look up wayyyyyy up :-D
    *pat* *pat* it's okay tiny one keep being angry and bitter though, it's really working out for yea. Do you secretly hope it will make you grow taller?? :P
     
  20. Seymour_Clufley

    Seymour_Clufley First Technician

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    I have to ask... when was the other time?
     

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