Episode 6- The Beginning

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by ghastly98, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. Reznor

    Reznor Guest

    haha i think i recall a cloister in rimmerworld :P
     
  2. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,796
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Location:
    JMC HQ
    Lister said "Hogey, you are always doing this". Rimmer was so used to him that he mouthed along with what he was saying.

    It was made quite clear that Hogey is a regular visitor to the ship. If you weren't paying attention that's your fault. Criticising the show for not doing things it actually DID just makes you look ignorant!
     
  3. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,796
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Location:
    JMC HQ
    Lister said "Hogey, you are always doing this". Rimmer was so used to him that he mouthed along with what he was saying.

    It was made quite clear that Hogey is a regular visitor to the ship. If you weren't paying attention that's your fault. Criticising the show for not doing things it actually DID just makes you look ignorant!
     
  4. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

    Messages:
    398
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    I only noticed that after viewing the episode for the third time (I finished watching it about 20 minutes ago!). And I was going to mention it! lol
     
  5. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

    Messages:
    398
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    For myself, I personally love pointing out, and looking for, continuity errors in the show. But it's not something I take at all seriously. I think if BF was putting down every fan who discusses continuity flaws and such, then that is not nice to be saying that. But there are some fans who take that too seriously, when it's not supposed to be serious, it's supposed to be fun. I would say that to call out fans who take the continuity so seriously that they actually bash the show for it (and I have seen numerous examples of that on this board during my time here) is perfectly acceptable though.
     
  6. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

    Messages:
    404
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    I don't get why people are making this complaint. There have been no more guest characters encountered this series than most others!
     
  7. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

    Messages:
    404
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    I agree with bedfordfalls.

    I got the joke and while it wasn't immediately clear why they weren't fussed about Hogey being on board, I thought that Lister saying "you do ths all the time" and calling him by name made it crystal clear.

    So what that they never showed the previous however-many encounters with him... As noted above, that was the point. It was misdirection.
     
  8. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    1,477
    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Location:
    Australia
    Best of the lot, though is clearly the episode with the most Blackadder style humour in the series. Having said that it did take some bold moves with Rimmer's character that I feel payed off. It gave us a glimpse of the person Rimmer could have been, the person that could have been Ace. Hogey while I initially wasn't so sure about made for an amusing if a tad silly fake out threat also seemed to play on the idea that they have encounted many characters during the show's time off the air and that the Boys themselves are getting too old to worry about any silly fake threats after then things they have encountered over the years. This too works well to introduce the biggest threat they ever faced. While I it hasn't soaked in enough for me to know how highly I place the episode, I know I loved it.
     
  9. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

    Messages:
    404
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    I've mentioned before that I've found a couple of episodes a little bit boring to watch back. I think this is the most re-watchable of them all. So I shall rate them as follows..

    The Beginning - 9/10
    Trojan - 8/10
    Fathers and Suns - 7/10
    Entangled - 7/10
    Dear Dave - 6/10
    Lemons - 6/10

    Wich makes it an above average series in my books. I'd probably list it as third a favourite after 6 and 5.
     
  10. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

    Messages:
    398
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    The only time I was a bit perplexed by the Hogey scene, was the first time I viewed it, and that was only really because I wasn't fully concentrating on what I was watching, and that I missed Lister calling him by name the first time I watched it. Something I also missed on the first viewing, was the Berserker (head) simulant actually was a menacing character. The way he laughed at the end of the "Seppuku" scene, and having one of his underlings killed just for contradicting him (even though he had asked them to do that!) was very in keeping with simiulants in other series'. In fact, he might be my fave simulant from all the series'! :-)

    Having now watched the episode 3 times, I have no doubts that it is a classic Dwarf episode, maybe even one of the best of all time. And easily the best of this series. I find it amazing that after such a poor episode ("Dear Dave"), this awesome episode appeared directly after it. I never expected the series to end on such a high note, so I'm very pleased with it.
     
  11. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

    Messages:
    398
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    That is very true. The scenes with the simulants in particular, were very Blackadder-esque in their delivery and humour. The head simulant was funny, but also acidic in character, which is very Blackadder. I'd say that comparisons with Blackadder actually shows the high praise being given to the episode. :-)
     
  12. Whisper

    Whisper First Technician

    Messages:
    155
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Last line being 'The Slime's coming home' - what a treat for the fans.

    I was really quite surprised at how little laughter that caught from the audience but did you see the genuine smirk from the entire cast in the final second?
     
  13. captainlisabeth

    captainlisabeth First Technician

    Messages:
    198
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Location:
    London, UK
    This was by FAR my favourite episode of the series. Love, love, LOVE it. Wasn't too keen on the rogue simulant but, hey, you can't win every time. It was such a streamlined episode, a real flow to it unlike some of the others from X... the only thing that didn't happen that I HOPED would happen was an appearance from Ace, though as it was revealed that Rimmer was the original I guess it wouldn't have made much sense if Ace HAD turned up.

    :-) A very happy Cap'n over here. Definitely going to buy it on DVD and definitely going to watch this ep again tonight.

    HUZZAH FOR DWARF!
     
  14. currymonster

    currymonster First Technician

    Messages:
    181
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Location:
    London
    I loved it. Torn between this snd Lemons as a fav of the series, but after my third viewing just now I was grinning like a cheshire cat at the end again. I think I feel happy for Rimmer, finally being free of his (step) fathers dissapointment and accepting himself as part of the slime right at the end :-)

    Was completely happy with the Only The Good references. Somehow Rimmer saved the day but it was done in such a funny way, a nod to the fans but in the same breath saying does it rwally matter I don't care what the solution was

    Still in debate over which Rimmer. Originally last night I was convinced it to be a mash up of both Rimmers, but as there was no mention as to his second death and I'm beginning to think he is a returned Ace.

    Thouroughly enjoyed the epusode, as I have the series. Some low points but aren't there always? Roll on RD-XI :-)
     
  15. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

    Messages:
    404
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    A lot of people have said that they loved Rimmer being the hero (in many ways, it's the original ending to 'Out of Time' that 'Tikka To Ride' robbed us of) but aren't sure how you'd go forward with him from here and still have the same character.

    Here's an idea (too late now but curious as to whether you guys think it would have worked).

    What if we found out at the end that Kryten altered the hologrammatic message to say what it did so that Rimmer would get over his daddy issues and be able to be brave and heroic? That would more easily explain why Cat went and gave him the pep talk saying he needed to get over his father (because Kryten put him up to it) and it would allow Rimmer to still be Rimmer despite having been the hero. Plus, the transition back to a weasly worm upon Kryten saying "Actually, Sir, I altered the message... he was your father" right at the end of the episode would have probably gotten a big laugh.
     
  16. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

    Messages:
    5,729
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Location:
    above you all in cheshire
    overall, pretty dissapointing. The simulant thing was a whole unbelievable set up for one weak joke that really wasn't worth it. I enjoyed the in-jokes and the slimes coming home line. The hari-kiri thing for me absolutely ruined the fact the simulants are supposed to be evil, instead of third rate 'whoops what a misunderstanding' type charcters, which in turn destroyeed any tension between the conflict. I enjoyed rimmer evolvoing, however the rimmer's dad thing ruined 2 decades of character development for me totally.
     
  17. Whisper

    Whisper First Technician

    Messages:
    155
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Nah if he could alter the message surely they would do a 'I've always been proud of you my son' message :-)
     
  18. currymonster

    currymonster First Technician

    Messages:
    181
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Location:
    London
    I agree the Sims let this ep down a bit. The sword thing felt like padding and unnecessary but I still loved.
    As for Rimmer's dad, I liked what they did, it was a nice revelation that he has been living up to a false idol as it were all these years. I don't think it'll change his character too much, no-ones character truely changes ... he weasly, bossing people around traits will still exist, there are just no excuss for them anymore
     
  19. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

    Messages:
    404
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Well the thing is, that wouldn't necessarily have made any sense because Rimmer had nothing for him to be proud of which is why those issues existed in the first place. Whereas the reason finding out that his father was a gardener worked was because it lowered the levels to which he had to live up to so he was suddenly able to appreciate what he had achieved.

    So, I disagree, if Kryten WAS to alter the message to get an act of bravery out of him, I think it would be to say that he wasn't his father rather than he was always proud of him.

    Plus, Kryten would come across as a bit of a knob if the revelation was "he actually never was proud of you, sir" instead of "actually, he was your father, sir" and thus the humour would have been lost.
     
  20. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

    Messages:
    404
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    I mean, it's a pointless argument anyway because he didn't, but still :-D
     

Share This Page