Episode 6- The Beginning

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by ghastly98, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. Whisper

    Whisper First Technician

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    Perhaps its one of those tough love excuses or all Rimmer does need is some acknowledgement?

    As you say it is irrelevant though and I actually quite like the way it panned out. As Lister says 'A millions jigsaw pieces suddenly fall together'.
     
  2. kakchris

    kakchris Third Technician

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    if you want to be picky about continuity then the reason Lister said that Rimmer's last words were "Mummy Mummy" was because he had promised never to mention gazpacho soup again. which i believe he has stuck to other than the "souper" gag.

    i enjoyed the episode thoroughly and the entire series. Trojan for me had the best woofers and The Beginning had the best Story. and was a Visual Treat Worth Waiting for. but every episode has had me laughing to for me it has been a success

    as one of those who have wanted to have a resolution to the VIII Cliffhanger for years. the way it was dealt with i actually found Hilarious,if it was 2 or 3 years after VIII i may have been angry but it is at the stage now where it does not really Matter, so using it as a tease and a gag ( twice ) i thought was great. as to which Rimmer it is.. It's Rimmer, we know from BTE he remembers Events from I-VI and now remembers events from the end of VIII ( whether as nano Rimmer or a Returning Ace) now it is left to our imaginations... imagine that eh ? having to use your own imagination :eek:

    "The Beginning" was also the first Red Dwarf and TV recording i have been to and it was a fantastic experience all round. if there is a series XI i really hope to be there again.
     
  3. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    Exactly! The fact that we had to wait so long, came up with so many theories, became even more confused with Back To Earth and then had them cheekily not answer the question we'd all been burning with was the absolute best way to do it. Had it just been a few years between the series then it absolutely WOULD have been a cop-out but, in this specific set of situations, it was great.

    Andrew Ellard also told me last night that it was apparently his idea so bravo, Andrew!
     
  4. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    I get the impression that Doug must have been watching a great deal of Blackadder before writing these episodes. There was quite a bit of Blackadder style humour in Trojan, Lemons, a little bit in the BEGG scene in Entangled....but it was most glaring in this episode. Certainly not a bad thing and infinitely better then what ever the hell was that constituted as humour in Series VIII.
     
  5. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    It's funny because, in many ways, series 8 was also an attempt to please the fans but it was entirely reactionary. People were seen to hate the drama and lack of pure comedy in series 7 (though that series seems to be perceived much better these days than at the time - I personally love it) so he reacted by stuffing a joke in every 10 seconds. This time around I think he found the right mix and - while there are still a few big things that need addressing - he largely did a great job.
     
  6. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    That was a classic line. :-) And not long after it, another awesome gag sequence was delivered based on the same sub-plot: Lister - "Well, you know, he thought he came from a military family, high flyers, success engrained in the very core of their DNA, now he discovers he's no better than me." Cat - "What a nightmare!"

    I agree with the above post saying that his "dad" saying he was proud of him wouldn't have worked. I also think the way the scene actually played out gave us an insight into maybe why Rimmer was treated so harshly by his "father", and why he showed favouritsm to Rimmer's brothers. I don't know how this will effect the character if there is a series 11, but in the context of this episode, it worked wonderfully well. :-)
     
  7. BruceFivesyth

    BruceFivesyth Third Technician

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    Although I think this was one of the better episodes of the series, I was still very disappointed.

    I watched it with a friend and for the first 10 minutes I was genuinely embarrassed. The gag at the end of the opening scene was painfully predictable and then we had another pantomime acting guest star. Even when the ship was under attack we still had Kryten doing his tedious laundry stuff. It was hard to watch.

    When they started going for the drama more the episode improved but it was certainly let down by the bad guys being so camp and unthreatening. In this series Pree's actress was by far the strongest guest star because she was allowed to play it straight so why the hell have so many other actors been asked to perform as if they're in a kids show? It's Series VIII all over again. I didn't realise that the Hara Kiri scenes are almost identical to those used in Mitchell and Webb but again I thought they were predictable and dragged on far, far too long.

    The revelation about Rimmer will doubtless split the fanbase. Personally I don't like the fact that this series with regard to both his brother and father has rewritten Rimmer's back story completely.

    As for the final battle, again we had Kryten doing some embarrassing laundry stuff when Doug should have been focussing on the drama but I think Chris Barrie did a decent job in this ep compared to the rest of the series.

    My friend's reaction at the end of the episode was short and to the point...'crap'.
     
  8. Ally1990

    Ally1990 First Technician

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    I think Rimmer saying 'the slime is coming home' is significant in that it emphasises that he's more or less on equal footing as Lister. It felt very final, though. It was the last line of The End and the last (ish) line of The Beginning. As someone said earlier, do they class Red Dwarf as home now? I don't know where Doug can take the show because by putting Rimmer and Lister as 'equals'; will it remove the odd-couple aspect? Where will that comedy come from? I think Doug has to be careful. He can't go back but if he goes forward it may remove some of the magic of show.

    I wonder if Rob has any ideas... give him a call, Doug. You never know. Time to forgive and forget.

    I rate this episode as an absolute classic. So wonderful. Encore!
     
  9. CaptainHallam

    CaptainHallam Second Technician

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    I didn't find this confusing or need to have any more explantion of the rogue droid. i think it was handled/explained in a way that over the course of the years he's turned up numerous times and this time we see Lister and the others take no notice of him - and to be honest he doesn't sound or look menacing in any way.
     
  10. Ally1990

    Ally1990 First Technician

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    Did young Rimmer remind anyone else, a little bit, of Mr. Bean?

    He was a very good actor, indeed.
     
  11. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    My review:

    • This features two ingredients that always work so well in Red Dwarf: an exploration into Rimmer's background and a palpable sense of peril.
    • The guest cast were all very impressive. I kept thinking that I recognised Hogey's voice, and sure enough it was Back to Earth's Richard O'Callaghan, which was a nice surprise. I always find it strangely pleasing when past actors reappear in Red Dwarf. I felt the same way when Steven Wickham returned in Entangled.
    • Some of the external shots of this series are the best to ever feature in Red Dwarf, and they saved the most spectacular ones for this episode.
    • It was nice to see Cat being catty again with the dangling string. Very much like the yo-yo moment in Waiting for God.
    • Some of the comedy was a bit forced, but I had about three laugh out loud moments and a decent number of smaller laughs.
    • I'm really going to have to try hard to avoid the trailers next time round. I find it really distracting when watching an episode for the first time but seeing moments that I'm already very familiar with.

    Overall: Arguably series X's standout episode, featuring a vibrant storyline, another welcome journey into Rimmer's background, and a good sense of tension.

    My personal rating: 7/10 My objective rating: 8/10
     
  12. codename_47

    codename_47 First Technician

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    Reminded me a bit of the 11th Doctor actually (shock, horror, it's mentioned again!) and not just the Bow tie and Tweed either...

    Now that all the episodes have aired can those that went to the recordings really open up about what it was like even more, "spoilers" and all.

    Would like to know which bits went well and which had retakes, etc, without the whole worry about too much information coming out.
     
  13. Ally1990

    Ally1990 First Technician

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    ^ Oh yeah, I can see Matt Smith a little bit. I think he played the role very well. I'd like to see him back.
     
  14. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Well that was just brilliant, what a way to round off the series. A few gags that I'd forgotten about, like Hari Kari and Cat with the string game, so there was still an element of discovery about it for me. I think most of my points have been covered already. However... ;-)

    Scene at Io Poly was good, falopian tube, Rimmer's note to the student :lol:

    Hogey I remembered well, although I still think he said, "You're Keith, my brother."

    It was Dungo the gardener! :-D I've been wanting to shout that out ever since I joined up here!

    Great ship shots, old music cues, nostalgic yet modern 8)

    Who cares about this Rimmer/that Rimmer. (OK I respectfully acknowledge that some do ;-) ), but for me storytelling is an artform, and art does not have to justify itself. It's Mr. Naylor's baby (now) and if that's what he wants then hey ho pip & dandy :-)

    One thing that I thought would have been cool was when the missiles were passing through Blue Midget. Cat with his lightning fast reflexes could have ducked under one and acted all cool it would have been funny.

    I think I'll watch it a few more times before giving it a rating. But at least a 9/10. A cracking adventure with fine gags to boot.

    That map that Hogie brought on board would be a very useful plot tool if we get another series. Where do those wormholes lead mewonders...
     
  15. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Pretty much this. I regard myself as a continuity bore but the difference is that I can laugh at myself for it and often do. Note JMC, your final example about Kochanski's age ends with a clear joke to point out that while I may have worked out all that geeky stuff I'm certainly not taking it seriously. That's why I used the phrase "serious continuity bores" to reflect the joylessness of certain individuals and the style with which they react to these things.
     
  16. ShrunkenPixel

    ShrunkenPixel Second Technician

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    My personal feelings on this is that it's been done correctly. While I can see some mileage with your idea, I much prefer things the way they were last night since it occurred to me - the final piece of a million-piece jigsaw finally fits into place.

    What I haven't seen pointed out is exactly why Holly chose Rimmer (of all people) to keep Lister sane. People aren't thinking along those lines because we've just got to the point where we accept things as they are - Rimmer keeping Lister (comparatively) sane because of irony, or maybe Holly had a senile moment. But we have to remember, Holly only appears to be senile. Despite all his fumbling and mess-ups in the past he's often proved to be remarkably smart at times (even surprising himself).

    Since Rimmer must have had that holographic message onboard since he first joined Red Dwarf, it's completely feasible that Holly may have been aware of the data it contains, or otherwise have access to certain personnel records. He'll have known, one way or the other, some point between the radiation leak and Lister coming out of stasis.

    This being the case, of course Rimmer's the ideal travel buddy. They're two peas in a pod, more alike than any other crew members on the ship. The only friction was caused because Rimmer didn't realise just how similar he and Lister were until the message was played back. Of course, it begs the question of why Holly didn't make this known earlier.

    Perhaps he didn't simply because he wasn't asked :lol:
     
  17. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I don't really buy that, I'm afraid. Genetically its not as if Lister and Rimmer have been outed as brothers and people's personalities are influenced by their upbringing way more than they are by genetics. You can't just suddenly "become" working class. I don't really get why people are so worried that Rimmer finding out he has a different father somehow reboots his whole character. People don't just perform a complete 180 in character in these situations, in fact they usually go through hilarious life crises, something I think adds further potential to the Rimmer character.
    Regardless of the revelation that both have working class fathers, I don't think this really gives them any more in common than both having brown hair.
     
  18. ShrunkenPixel

    ShrunkenPixel Second Technician

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    That's kind of missing the point. Holly, being a computer, basically would have extrapolated some kind of best-match based on the background similarities of the two. While Peterson and Toddhunter may have had closer personalities to Lister (and therefore they would have been an obviously good fit), the fact that Rimmer's background rendered him of the same 'class' as Lister (despite Rimmer himself not knowing this, and acting upper-class because of his general belief that he was) probably just pipped them for Holly's choice as the single hologram, since Peterson and Toddhunter really were higher rank and class than Rimmer.

    Holly probably didn't factor-in Rimmer's actual personality (otherwise he wouldn't have used a chap that would drive Lister round the bend instead of keeping him sane), meanwhile Rimmer was very quick to adjust to the realisation of his true station in life and the pair seem to now be closer-knit than ever, even to the point of repeating Lister's famous phrase "the slime's coming home!"... so Holly's plan did work out, eventually :-)

    It's important to note, computer's aren't smart, they just appear to be. Holly going senile (losing processing power) probably meant he couldn't 'personality match' Lister to the crew (that would take him millions more years), he couldn't use 'proper common sense' as a human could (computers are very intelligent idiots, really) so instead he just pulled up their profiles, realised they were the only two 'working class' individuals on the ship, and went with that :lol:

    The fact that Lister is his own father probably never factored into it. He would have been assumed 'working class' because of the family he was raised around and the life he led. plus his position of lowest-ranked crew member.

    And if Norman returns for Series XI, this could lead to obvious hilarity as it emerges Holly knew the truth about Rimmer for a long time, but just didn't consider it relevant enough to randomly bring up at any point. Maybe he was simply never asked.
     
  19. blaggard

    blaggard First Technician

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    I think you rather missed the point here - it's completely in character for Rimmer to try to claim to be a working class hero in this sort of context, even though his upbringing would clearly suggest otherwise.

    Loved the non-resolution of the end of "Only the Good..." - reminded me a lot of the whole furore in Star Wars around whether it was Han or Greedo or shot first - actually clarifying it would only have caused more dissatisfaction. And it was done in a funny way, which to me is most important.

    Quite like Hogie too..he was quite engaging, although I could have done without the comedy accent. initially it was confusing as to why the crew didn't appear alarmed to see him, but that made the payoff from Lister much better in my view.

    I had fun with this episode. "The slime's coming home" made me laugh out loud, too.
     
  20. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    The intent of that final line was nice...but as with everything Chris Barrie did this series, the delivery just felt off for me. It was well scripted as was the fist slamming moment but again, because of the broadness of Rimmer this series it didn't feel like the rousingly out of character "I say fight" that stirred so much in viewers during the close of Out of Time.
    In series X Rimmer already wasted that angry delivery talking about Shakespeare...which was a shame.
     

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