Episode 6- The Beginning

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by ghastly98, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    Didn't Holly say that he chose Rimmer because Lister spoke more words to him than any other crew member, leading to Lister joking that the majority of those words were insults?
     
  2. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    Oh and I'm not saying that my idea for Kryten to reveal he'd tampered with the message was what they SHOULD have done or would have been better - I was just thinking along the lines of how they could have done it and 'reset' at the end, since some people are uncomfortable with Rimmer becoming heroic. I liked the ending as it is :-)
     
  3. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    You are right. That is why Holly chose Rimmer. No other explanation is needed. All this nonsense about Holly maybe knowing about the holographic message etc, its just overcomplicating something that doesn't need overcomplicating!! :roll:
     
  4. ShrunkenPixel

    ShrunkenPixel Second Technician

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    I'd completely forgotten that - this does show the sort of thought processes that went into choosing a proper room-mate for Lister that Holly must have done. This could well have been one of a (small) number of (incredibly) basic tests and calculations done by Holly, and the only one which could have been revealed openly to Lister when asked.

    There are a long list of Space Corp Directives that directly relate to confidential JMC information, information about deceased crew members and use of holographic records and data... so Rimmer's own anal adherence to those rules could very well turn out to be one of the reasons he didn't find out sooner.

    So the number of conversations between the two, as well as the fact that (based on fresh information) Rimmer was never projected to rise above the rank of Second Technician (based on a JMC applicant suitability filtering system) - Rimmer was the most compatible (on paper) individual on board. While not exactly brothers, they're peers in every sense. Something Rimmer only recently realised.

    Even Petersen and Toddhunter outranked Rimmer... or at least theoretically outranked him once the data from Rimmer's father was entered into the equation. These two, despite being buddies, probably had a projected 0.2% chance of using their rank or status against Lister driving him even further into depression and insanity. Irony is a funny thing :lol:
     
  5. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    Sorry if this has already been asked, but why was the opening scene with young Rimmer at the Poly set in the 1970s?
     
  6. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    What makes you think that?! It was set on Io, a moon of Jupiter, and the classroom had a very futuristic-looking clock.
     
  7. TouchT1701

    TouchT1701 Third Technician

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    LOL! Indeed!:lol:
     
  8. ShrunkenPixel

    ShrunkenPixel Second Technician

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    Like the others have said, there was nothing to suggest that scene was from the 70's :-)

    That being the case, I believe it was a missed opportunity. Fashions go round in circles, and theoretically the old 70's styles and trends could have made a huge comeback around that time and would have believably dated the scene.

    Then again I suppose there would have been a risk such elements may have detracted too much from what went on.
     
  9. ShrunkenPixel

    ShrunkenPixel Second Technician

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    One problem with this whole "continuity bores" argument that bugs me is how it was used last night in The Beginning. First and foremost we were told (on numerous occasions) that there would be a Series VIII resolution, and in the episode itself there were two seperate occasions where an explanation was teased and never given.

    Now I personally am neither here nor there on that issue, not particularly minding either way.

    But despite this, I failed to see any "real" humour in those two scenes. While they were funny, they were only funny because we know that there are people out there, on the edge of their seats, who've either waited over a decade or are primarily pumped about what explanation Doug would give us above and beyond anything else the episode had to offer. If it wasn't so clearly apparent that all of a sudden there are people all over the country totally smegged off, it wouldn't have been funny at all.

    If that scene were replaced with an explanation (or lack thereof) of something nobody even knew (let alone cared) about, it just would have been a lead-up without a punchline and fallen totally flat.

    Because of this, I believe there is a minority who were deliberately prodded with that red-hot poker last night, and to be honest I'm surprised there's not been a much stronger reaction. It was an incredibly dangerous thing to do.
     
  10. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    it was actually pretty good continuity if you look at how Rimmer's Dad was dressed in BTL.

    I was really impressed with how similar the new actor was made to look.

    To be honest I didn't even actually read your post or pay attention to who Sim was replying too. I'd become bored of seeing people discuss OTG instead of the episode in question and so after scrolling past numerous posts either complaining about or trying to work out the resolution to OTG I saw a familiar row of emoticons and glanced at Sim's comment, which by that point I wholeheartedly agreed with. I don't remember you ever reacting to continuity errors in the way I described when talking about the "joylessness of certain individuals". I assume those individuals are pretty familiar to everyone.

    Or indeed the missiles colliding in the cockpit or hitting each other...uh oh, now we've done it! :lol:

    As for the name of the episode. Well I guess its a few things. Doug essentially (as he did with BTE) went for the "Futurama ending", the bittersweet, relatively happy ending that will be satisfactory if its the last thing we ever see of Dwarf.

    I guess the name can be taken in numerous ways though: as an echo of the first episode (if it does indeed turn out to be the last) as a nod to the beginning of a new lease of life for the show and as a the chance for a new beginning for Rimmer.
     
  11. MichaelJRimmer

    MichaelJRimmer Second Technician

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    The episode was good, really good, but I WANTED TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE CORROSIVE MICROBE! I just assume that Series I-VII Rimmer returned, but altered everyone's memory to think that Second Technician Rimmer did it, and then switched places with him. All Lister Kryten and Cat know is that the original Rimmer returned and that the human Rimmer died.
     
  12. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    Sorry mate, it was written badly. A lot of people found this bit confusing. If you actually didn't hear Lister call Hoagy by his name (which was easy to miss as we have never heard of him before, it isn't my "fault" for not paying attention- did you ever miss a single word in a program you watched, Mr Perfect?) it seems very weird. I actually did assume he was a guy they had met before but since it was written so badly I then assumed lister was just talking about rogue droids in general.

    It may have pointed to the fact that they had met them, but it didn't do it well enough. That's my point. And I am entitled to my point that they did not do this well enough, so I am not wrong. Part of the problem here is Doug I suppose wanted to write Cat's and Kryten's reactions as if they didn't know him but were being really stupid, only for it to be revealed they did know him. So their reactions couldn't give away the fact that they did, but had to fit with the reality that they did anyway so it still made sense later on.

    Basically Seb, you're role here is to be hugely positive about every smegging thing in this new series, to just have no constructive criticism or even understand that other people might. I wasn't slagging off the show, I just felt that particular gag was a good idea but not executed properly. But hey, RD is totally fantastic and we must suck up to it as if it can do no wrong.

    Quite frankly, you calling me ignorant makes YOU look like a rude git. Someone like you shouldn't even moderate a forum, but it seems the RD boards like to go for the Rude + Sycophant option.

    Course I'll probably get banned for this but whatever, this is my point of view and you sir are out of line.
     
  13. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    Maybe it's something that only allows objects of a certain mass to pass through... I'd imagine that could be built in as a limitation to ensure that it doesn't cause any hull breaches or whatever.

    I'm more concerned about how Hogey got free and what became of the hull breach!
     
  14. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    Really liked him as young rimmer. Way better casting than the really young rimmer used in Timeslides, Dimension Jump
     
  15. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    I don't agree that Cat and Kryten were written for their reactions to be ambiguous.. one of the most commented parts of that first sequence with Hogey is that it was odd how familiar and fearless of him the crew were, suggesting that they both knew and were incredibly comfortable with him.

    I can understand missing Lister call him by his name because it was over the top of a laugh, but there are several clear indications that he'd been on the ship many times before... Lister saying "you do this all the time", then asking if he wanted to play various sports to which he replied "but you guys always win" etc.

    I honestly don't think you claim this to have been badly written in terms of getting the point over that he'd been on the ship before.

    I will agree that I think Seb was a little rude to you, though.
     
  16. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    :shock: What, apart from the obvious 70s clothing, you mean?

    Someone please tell me I'm not the only one whose first thought was, "Why is this flashback set in the 1970s?"

    [EDIT] Mmm, just had another look to make sure I wasn't going mad, and I have to admit I was wrong. The clothing, hair styles, etc are blatantly styled on the 1950s :shock:
     
  17. ShrunkenPixel

    ShrunkenPixel Second Technician

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    I would have presumed a hull-breach wouldn't just create a wind-tunnel effect, but depressurize Red Dwarf and cause the ship to immediately explode spectacularly. Ignoring this, you still have all the oxygen leaking out into space. Even if the life-support systems can continue to produce air, the air in Lister's bunk room would be so thin that nobody would be able to breathe at all.

    As far as Blue Midget's bulkheads being destabilised is concerned, I'm surprised the crew (and everything attached to the floor) didn't drop straight out of the bottom of the ship, since there wouldn't have been a stable support holding everything together.

    Sometimes I think it's a good idea to switch off the brain before enjoying Red Dwarf :-)
     
  18. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    My point is with Cat and Kryten is they just direct him to Lister. So if he is always challenging lister in particular then he would just search for lister. If he challenges them all, I don't get why both cat and Kryten both point him to lister and don't just tell him to go find someone else. Or why Hoagey would accept being directed to someone else. I think Logically cat wouldn't even say "you want lister" more like "Oh go find lister" "you want ister" made it seem like lister had killed his brother and cat and kryten knew that.

    I mean people can say it was signposted but I got what they were intending, it's just that to me it was badly written enough that I doubted my initial conclusion. "nah I must be wrong here.." that kind of thing.
     
  19. ShrunkenPixel

    ShrunkenPixel Second Technician

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    Hogey's not a villain, or even a real threat. He's just an idiot that finds a certain amount of entertainment in toying around and playing games out in deep space. He's bored, and like some children, will do and say things not only for attention but to provoke action. Nobody's brother has been killed, Hogey's just having a laugh trying to instigate a bit of fun with the crew.

    He goes to each one in turn, realising they're not interested and moving to the next. By the time he gets to Lister he realises everyone's already fed-up and bored of him, and there's nobody else to go to. He's clearly upset and frustrated... he's stuck out in the middle of nowhere, wants some fun and nobody will play with him :-)
     
  20. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    But why does that suggest it's set in the 70's/50's? Fashions come and go ALL of the time and Red Dwarf has, in the past, made jokes that involve out-of-date segments of culture overtaking what we, in the modern world, use (such as the VHS/DVD joke in BTE) so it's probably a joke in the same vein.

    It honestly baffles me that anyone could watch that and think it was set in the 70's or earlier. They were ON A MOON OF JUPITER IN DOMES!
     

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