Episode 6- The Beginning

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by ghastly98, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    yeah I know no one's brother has been killed haha. I just don't think the scene went down in a very realistic way (assuming such a situation was real)
     
  2. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    How do you "know no one's brother has been killed"? :?
     
  3. ShrunkenPixel

    ShrunkenPixel Second Technician

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    Hogey mentions a number of times how he's bored and wants a little fun. That's his real motivation, he's not out for genuine revenge or anything. It's clear he has certain "lines" he uses to try and provoke people into playing with him, but Lister and co have already heard it all before, entertained him a bunch of times in the past (as it passed the time) but are now bored with him.
     
  4. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    I'm beset on all sides..
     
  5. ShrunkenPixel

    ShrunkenPixel Second Technician

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    As I said, it's just a line Hogey uses to try to provoke a little fun. In this case, he wants a "duel across space and time" as he's a little bored. Lister and crew have heard this all before, entertained him (because they too were bored), but (like an annoying little kid) Hogey keeps turning up and won't leave them alone.

    Once he realises that line isn't working, he hands Lister the cloth map, "the likes of which you've never seen". But this too is a line, which again Lister is used to - just another way of trying to provoke a little fun out of the Dwarf crew.

    He might look like he's being serious, but it's all part of the act. Everything becomes apparent as soon as he realises he's not going to get his way, as he actually looks disappointed rather than insanely vengeful. If his brother were really killed by Lister, he'd be out for blood, not just a bit of fun.
     
  6. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    I think you "you killed my brother"/"your keys, my brother" line was part of the misdirection, to make us think he was the brother of the original 'Justice' simulant.
     
  7. Pecospete666

    Pecospete666 Catering Officer

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    [​IMG][/URL][/img]
     
  8. Goit_84

    Goit_84 First Technician

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    I didn't understand Rimmer's conflicting lines.

    He mentions how he died in the radiation leak (let's also ignore the 'last words' retcon) and then later mentions how he was responsible for solving the microbe problem. So he has memories of dying twice? The resurrected Rimmer had no memory of the original accident. That Rimmer apparently died shortly after solving the microbe issue. So X Rimmer is BOTH Rimmers? An amalgamation? What? If that's the case why is his main experience of death the radiation leak which killed him? What about his other death of his resurrected self. Does he have memory of his first death, life as a hologram, leaving to be Ace and then second life, and then dying a second time?

    Confused....
     
  9. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I don't get why people insist on seeing this as conflicting.

    At no point does he say "I, the Rimmer who was resurrected by the nanobots solved the microbe problem."

    Occams razor, my friend. Cut that nasty series 8 Rimmer right out of the equation and accept the one true Rimmer! :lol:
     
  10. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    Oh, not this again haha.

    Just because he says he solved the microbe problem doesn't mean it was the Rimmer from series 8 - it was left open-ended but, given the other clues, it's most likely that this is the Rimmer who went off to be Ace and he returned at some point and saved the crew and the Rimmer from series 8 died.

    There have been hints throughout that this was the original Rimmer (him saying he killed the crew, the line about him dying in the radiation leak, him being immune to the despair squid due to prior exposure in Back To Earth etc) though it was, admittedly, left open-ended. But if you consider it to be that Rimmer encountered them in the mirror universe (and he was dimension jumping as Ace, remember) and then solved the problem of Red Dwarf being destroyed and saved them, then that's not a contradiction in his lines.
     
  11. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    And also, his last words were not ret-conned.. Lister was winding him up. Rimmer replies "those weren't my last words", referring to what we all know they actually are.
     
  12. Goit_84

    Goit_84 First Technician

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    Ah sorry, I didn't know original Rimmer came back. It wasn't mentioned that Ace came back nor was Rimmers failure to be Ace ever mentioned. Could he just be a duplicate hologram pre-Ace? The man is just software I guess so the Ace hologram wouldn't need to come back to boot up a replacement hologram.
     
  13. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    Exactly! So why dress them in the style of the 1950s?

    Can you honestly say, hand on heart, and forgetting what you know about them being on a moon under a dome, that the way they're dressed, hairstyles, etc, in that scene, isn't styled on the 1950s? All that was missing was Professor Indiana Jones.
     
  14. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    Well, the fact he's hard-light suggests it's the original and not a copy because Red Dwarf doesn't have the technology to generate hard-light holograms.
     
  15. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    Well, did you miss the rest of my post? There's no reason to believe that an 'old' style wouldn't come back into fashion in the future as it happens all the time.
     
  16. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    As I said above, Red Dwarf can't generate hard-light holograms. Series 6 Rimmer is only a hard-light due to Legion. There's no reason to believe that Red Dwarf was upgraded in any way to produce its own hard-light holograms because we've never seen another (Katarina was a hallucination) and Legion implied that the technology was way, way behind what he upgraded it to.
     
  17. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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  18. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    But compare the situations - Kryten is able to alter the existing capabilities of certain technologies, but Legion was a combination of the greatest minds from history. In other words, he wa a ebing that - by design - was smarter than any being, human or otherwise, could ever be - by definition. He would have no purpose if they could all simply achieve the same by putting their heads (metaphorically) together. So it's wise to assume that Legion invented the hard-light drive, a feat beyond the individuals and thus beyond Kryten to replicate.

    But, even if you ignore all that.. given that Rimmer has a 'body' which became immune to the ink, you'd have to assume that a new generation of his hologram would NOT contain that same immunity because Rimmer never returned to Red Dwarf before Series 8 so - even if, somehow, the immunity was able to be transferred to a new body - Red Dwarf never got to "update" his file before he left the crew.

    And given that they lost Holly due to the distance, it's wise to assume that he couldn't be updated from afar, either.
     
  19. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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  20. ghastly98

    ghastly98 First Technician

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    The alternate ending is not canon since it wasn't used. A shame, since it explains the micro-organism. It still, however, doesn't explain the death of the crew, and with Cat's comment that "it was a fluke" and disagreement whether Rimmer solved it or not, the ending does not quite fit. Shame, too...
     

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