Explain That?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Hollo_Marx, Sep 28, 2014.

  1. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    Maybe Holly told Rimmer off-screen or he overheard from other cabin.

    I'm not sure he actually see absolute everything, but whether or not she could, but I I think it was mainly to make Lister suffer, regardless of whether Rimmer did the deed or not.
     
  2. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    When was the last time we saw or heard of the light-bee? I assume he was using the light-bee in Lemons and Twentica, unless their new remote-projection technology can keep projecting him three million years in the past.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  3. HO HO HO I'M JMC

    HO HO HO I'M JMC Deck Sergeant

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    This sounds commonsensical, but circles back to the riddle from Stasis Leak - which seems to suggest that, even without a light bee, Rimmer can travel through space and time.

    Weeks before Gazpacho Soup day, Red Dwarf was still in the Solar System. So the physical distance and temporal displacement are in the same ballpark as Lemons and Twentica (i.e., returning to the Solar System ≈3,000,000 years ago).
     
  4. HO HO HO I'M JMC

    HO HO HO I'M JMC Deck Sergeant

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    Seconded. I assume that Rimmer has just heard and wants to rub Lister's face in it. He even alludes to the fact of a rumour mill surrounding the case:

    I don't imagine he knew about the brig until he heard the gossip.
     
  5. FeeBeeBells

    FeeBeeBells Deck Sergeant

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    I'm assuming that they would have a small brig that is used for problem crew members and seperate from the brig on Floor 13.
     
  6. Callisto252

    Callisto252 Supply Officer

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    They definitely have a brig on board that they know about, or at least Rimmer knows about. In The Inquisitor, when wondering what should be done with 'alternative' Lister and Kryten, Rimmer says something like 'take them up to the security deck and stick them in the brig'. A whole security deck sounds quite substantial - is floor 13 in addition to this then? Or maybe Rimmer always knew about floor 13, was referring to it here and Lister simply wasn't paying attention.
     
  7. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I'd say they're separate places. 'brig' brings to mind a small cell, or a small collection at most. In fact Lister and Rimmer were stuck in one before being put in the tank, if I remember correctly. Do you remember how they used the luck virus to escape?

    The tank is an entire prison complex, potentially five miles long if it took up the entire deck! (It likely didn't, but point is, it could be the size of a full prison on Earth.)
     
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  8. HO HO HO I'M JMC

    HO HO HO I'M JMC Deck Sergeant

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    Hmm, I'll have to give this one some thought.

    Sadly, in VIII, floor 13 is introduced as "the brig" - before Holly adds "the tank" as a nickname. Lister's first reaction is that Red Dwarf doesn't have a "brig". As per the above, Rimmer refers to a "brig" in Inquisitor and *isn't* surprised in BITR part 1.

    Holly's joke about "anyone who's watched Twilight Zone" suggests that, despite being classified, the existence of floor 13 isn't a very well-guarded secret. Perhaps Rimmer simply paid more attention to onboard gossip than Lister did?
     
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  9. Callisto252

    Callisto252 Supply Officer

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    Ok, so if Rimmer did possibly know about the existence of 400 prisoners on board, wouldn't the Justice computer have included their number in its final murder count? Didn't Lister wonder where all those extra people came from? (just like we did at the time!)

    I'm assuming that the Justice computer obtained that number by reading Rimmer's mind, as it did to ascertain his guilt - but perhaps not. Maybe they were all surprised by the number.

    Hmm, I'm really not happy about bringing Series VIII into Series IV in this way though! I don't like to think of the Tank existing on the original ship.
     
  10. Decembers

    Decembers Deck Sergeant

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    Maybe the tank was an extra 'distraction' created by the nanobots, on Holly's command to keep Lister sane.
     
  11. HO HO HO I'M JMC

    HO HO HO I'M JMC Deck Sergeant

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    Possible explanations:

    1) Rimmer was dimly aware that the ship had a "brig", which was meant to be a secret. But he had no idea how many prisoners (if any) were held there.

    This is my preferred explanation. As well as Holly's Twilight Zone remark, we have the following insight into how poorly secrets are guarded on ship:

    2) Rimmer forgot to include the brig in his mental tally of deaths. If you keep hearing that Red Dwarf has a crew of however many, you could easily forget the prisoners. If Rimmer had said "x people died" and someone corrected him - "x plus four hundred, actually - you forgot the inmates of floor 13" - that wouldn't seem unbelievable. Anyone could make an error like that. Since the Justice computer is reading his mind, and there's no one to correct the stat, it's allowed to stand.

    3) Rimmer is sufficiently authoritarian in his outlook that he places no value on the lives of hardened convicts, and doesn't feel any guilt over their deaths.

    I feel your pain - so I'll venture another explanation:

    4) The brig was built by the nanobots, and populated with prisoners, because that was part of Red Dwarf's "original design plans - before the JMC made all its cutbacks." The prisoners are so cartoony precisely because they are "stock characters", pasted in by the nanobots, rather than nano-clones of real people. In this interpretation, Original Rimmer didn't know about floor 13 because there wasn't one. His allusion to a "brig" in Inquisitor is either:

    - - - i. A reference to a small corner of a modest "security deck", where unruly or drunk personnel can be held (noting that someone wouldn't cool off if you put them in stasis)

    - - - ii. An optimistic (and incorrect) assumption about the ship's facilities.

    This isn't my preferred explanation, because original Holly tells Lister about the brig, and says "there was an inmate population of four hundred" - not "there was meant to be".
     
  12. Callisto252

    Callisto252 Supply Officer

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    All good explanations, but I think I'll go with number 4 (no surprise there then!).

    You're right, it is a bit problematic though. I'll just have to imagine that Holly was lying; pretending he knew about The Tank and the prisoners when in fact he had no idea where they had come from or why the ship had gained all these extra bits. Maybe he was trying to come across as competent and knowledgeable to make Lister feel better about his dire situation (helping him to stay a little bit sane, as Pembers suggests). 'Nigel' (who we never see again, right? My series VIII knowledge is a little patchy!) is surely just Holly's idea of a joke to lighten the mood. Not that it really works of course, but then Holly was definitely more addled than usual when he came back at the end of Nanarchy.
     
  13. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Huh. Funnily enough, I didn't interpret Stasis Leak as involving spatial travel, only temporal. The way I interpreted it, the magic-stasis-gas had leaked into a part of Red Dwarf, and that part of Red Dwarf was preserved in a different time-zone, but from the point of view of the Holographic Projection Suite Rimmer was still on Red Dwarf, it was just different to the rest of the ship. Like if you pickled one part of an onion. I didn't interpret it that going through the magic-door actually catapulted them across the universe back to the Solar System as well.

    We had never seen that bathroom before or since. But in Stasis Leak, they do exit the bathroom and walk around the entire ship, even back to their sleeping quarters. So how expansive was the "leak"? Lister says it's leaked into "this room", but he has no idea how it works. It's not just one room. I guess this is in the same box as Timeslides - how did they leave the frame of the photo. They must have actually been zapped off the ship entirely. I interpreted it more like they were still physically on the same ship, but were just sort of seeing it as it was in the past.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
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  14. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Also, I can't be the only person who thought that was the least convincing spaceship bathroom ever.
     
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  15. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Actually, this needs an Explain this:

    LISTER: The stasis room freezes time, you know, makes time stand still. So whenever you have a leak, it must preserve whatever it's leaked into, and it's leaked into this room.

    Unfortunately it's once again Lister explaining things to us. So when trying to work it out, we need to consider the fact that Lister is guessing. But it's all we've got, so I'm going to assume it's the truth.

    Is that bathroom still spatially on their own Red Dwarf, but just sort of temporally "pickled", or does the stasis-juice zap them back to the Solar System? I assume that bathroom was still in that place in the future.

    The stasis leak must have leaked into more than just that room. After they're done with the bathroom, they go further into past Red Dwarf, in fact they wander around the whole ship. So had the stasis leak leaked into the whole ship? I guess it had been leaking a long time, possibly over three million years. Did it not run out of stasis-juice, or is that constantly replenished? They then go to the Ganneymede Hotel. I'm not having it that they're still in the stasis-vinegar. They're definitely off Red Dwarf then!

    Previously, I always imagined that the stasis leak had pickled parts of the ship, but those parts were still on the ship. But that has to be wrong if they go to Gannymede. So the stasis-vinegar must catapult them across the universe when they enter it. That was a pretty smooth ride.

    But then why is everyone moving as normal instead of being stasified? Where does the "leak" end, or has it leaked into the whole ship?
     
  16. Callisto252

    Callisto252 Supply Officer

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    Lister doesn't know and is clearly just having a layman's guess as to what it is (since Holly seems to have no idea whatsoever). I think that the stasis leak 'must' be (not that I really know anything about these things!) a small kind of wormhole connecting one bit of spacetime with another. God knows how it developed on board ship or what stasis had to do with it - but wormholes are hypothetical anyway, so maybe we could let that one go? (or maybe not, as that's not exactly in the spirit of this thread).

    And yes, agree on the extremely unfuturistic spaceship bathroom - it's much better than the first one they used though!
     
  17. Smegerama

    Smegerama Supply Officer

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    We see Rimmer's light-bee fall in Twentica when he shuts off, same with Howard dying in Trojan. We see it in Back to Earth, too. With the exception of Series VIII, which had no holograms, we see a light-bee at least once in every series since it was introduced.
     
  18. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Great memory. But do we see Rimmer using the light-bee in X?

    The light-bee features in BtE in the hallucination, but I think it counts because why hallucinate it if you're not using it. Everything else about the character's kits in the hallucination is the same as the reality before and after.

    So Rimmer used it in BtE, used some other full-hologram method in X, then started using the light-bee again in XI? I wonder what that was about.
     
  19. Smegerama

    Smegerama Supply Officer

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    Someone should tweet Doug. These questions need answers.
     
  20. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    When he first gets hard-light in Legion, it's to do with his light-bee. We've never seen any evidence that his previous projection tech, the Hologram Projection Suite, is capable of hard-light.

    But in Entangled, he is projecting in hard-light. Then Kryten pushes a button to switch him to soft-light, and he goes right through the door. No glimpse or mention of the light-bee. It's not there. Then Kryten changes him back to hard-light behind the door. Rimmer then opens the door, comes out, and does the I'm-changing-back-to-hardlight shuffle, even though he already changed back to hardlight in the stasis booth!
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017

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