Explain That?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Hollo_Marx, Sep 28, 2014.

  1. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I think the light bee was meant to be there in Entangled. They just didn't bother with the effect of showing it hovering there. Maybe they figured it world just confuse the issue showing the light bee remain behind at the doors while Rimmer stepped through in his soft-light mode.

    Possibly it wasn't required as they were on a ship which may have had its own holo-emitters which could be utilised, which would explain how he could be projected beyond the wall. The projectors the other side of the wall simply take over when he 'steps through' *

    But I'd suspect they'd use the light bee as the main source of projection on away missions, even if they borrow other emitters when they really need to. Best to rely on what you own rather than other tech elsewhere, and it gives Rimmer his independence.

    *An illusion, as he wouldn't actually step through. Light doesn't pass through a solid object unless that object is transparent (I.e. a window) , after all. The emitters each side of the door simply project the part of Rimmer each side as he appears to pass through.

    Of course future tech might have gotten around that. Maybe holograms actually can be projected through objects... The fact holograms exist in that world at all shows they have a mastery over light manipulation beyond us, and that's just soft-light!
     
  2. Callisto252

    Callisto252 Supply Officer

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    It might be worth remembering that when the light bee made its first appearance - in Chapter 6 of IWCD - it was possible for a solid object to pass through it:

    (Quote) "As Saunders turned to go, Weiner raced through his hologramatic body, and into the medical unit."

    True, the light bee in this instance was described as being the size of a pin head, but clearly it wasn't disturbed or disrupted in the way you might expect a floating, solid object to be in such circumstances.

    I think this is an excellent suggestion and would certainly explain the above - although if this was the case, how would it be possible for Ace and Howard Rimmer's light bees to get irreparably damaged?
     
  3. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    It could presumably still be damaged when it was in its solid form. But if it had the capacity to "wibblify" and still project, then why ever be solid. Shall we assume it can only wibblify in short bursts?
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  4. Smegerama

    Smegerama Supply Officer

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    And they went to the trouble of adding a sound effect over it. They have to have intended for his light bee to have been floating there and just never gotten around to it for some reason. That's the only way this works without radically altering the entire nature of the light bee. I really don't have much problem accepting - given all we know of the production - that the latter half of series 10 could end up leaving out a detail like that, inadvertently or not.

    It just seems utterly bizarre to me that they would allow the light bee to pass through a wall and not comment on it. All they'd need is to a quick throwaway explanation about how he got an even newer light bee between Series VIII and BtE that can briefly wibblify solid objects to pass through them. Or that his hard light drive could always do that, it just never came up. Just something to explain why the light bee, specifically introduced so Rimmer could have some sort of physical presence when he was soft light, is suddenly intangible.

    And I think we can discount IWCD's light bee from consideration, as it was a completely different piece of hardware from the light bee we see in the series in pretty much every detail.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  5. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    The whole scene did happen on the ERRA station, remember.
     
  6. Smegerama

    Smegerama Supply Officer

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    Rimmer can utilize the on-board hologrammatic projection systems on ships that have one. There. Explained. He doesn't need his light bee except off-ship.
     
  7. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    But why would they bother when it'd be easier to keep using his light-bee like normal. Also, he's projecting right from the start. Also, where is his light-bee when they do this?
     
  8. Smegerama

    Smegerama Supply Officer

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    IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. LET'S JUST PRETEND HE'S NOT USING HIS LIGHT BEE SO IT DOES. EITHER THAT OR ASK DOUG ON TWITTER.

    MY BRAIN HURTS.
     
  9. RainbowGazelle

    RainbowGazelle Second Technician

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    The door was not solid! Nobody actually touches it. Because they were on the ERRA Station, the door sucked, and actually didn't function as a door, but nobody checked. Therefore the solid light bee can go through easily. That's my answer.
     
  10. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    I'm pretty sure Rimmer touches it because he opens it to let Irene E out.
     
  11. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    This theory about "Rimmer's using the other's ship's hologram projectors" is something we've been dealing with since Rimmer boarded the Nova 5 back in Kryten. In Kryten, Rimmer successfully leaves Red Dwarf aboard Blue Midget. So how is he being projected inside Blue Midget? Do we assume there's a certain range where Red Dwarf can still project him off-ship for a bit? And maybe the end of Red Dwarf's projection range perfectly met up with the end of Nova 5's projection range, meaning Rimmer seamlessly transitioned between the two whilst aboard Blue Midget. Still, we never saw any arrangements being made for this transfer. No "do you have hologram projectors, can we transfer our hologram into them, how do we do that?" etc. But just because we didn't see it on-camera doesn't mean it didn't happen, I suppose.

    In Entangled, this theory becomes even less likely. Firstly, Rimmer now has a light-bee enabling infinite mobility - he went back to 1st century Earth without any problem. So why would they bother with this fiddly arrangement to have him projected by the ERRA station's hologram projectors when he could just use his light-bee like normal. Secondly, there was no one aboard the ERRA station for them to communicate with to arrange this. So they wouldn't have even known if the ERRA station had functioning hologram projectors, let alone had anyone to pre-programme Rimmer into them. I suppose they could have done the old "psi-scan" to "detect" hologram projectors, and Kryten could have some programmed Rimmer into them remotely without any assistance. But surely there'd be like, the hologram equivalent of a wi-fi code or something.
     
  12. RainbowGazelle

    RainbowGazelle Second Technician

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    He pushed a physical button nearby to open it, and never actually touched the door! :nod:
     
  13. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    *eyes glaze over*

    must.... resist.... attempt.... at...... sarcasm.......

    :-|
     
  14. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    Kryten switched Rimmer to soft-light and Rimmer stepped through the door... only to get through half - way as - chink! - his light bee hits the door.

    Rimmer: (Quietly) I think I've found the teensie weensie fault in your plan Krytes!

    Lister: Much as we enjoy staring at your rear end poking our of the door all day, Rimmer, do ya think you could get a move on? Kochanski won't defrost herself, you know!

    Rimmer feels a bit silly, so he simulates stepping the rest of the way through the door (although that basically just means disappearing one side as there was nothing to project him the other side) simultaneously activating his light-bee's cloaking device* so the others can't see it. He zips up through a handy air vent and rattles his way round to another air vent in the stasis section.

    He then zips past the stasis booths to the other side of the door and simulates stepping through the other side. Part way through, he has another 'doh' moment as he realised he could have just rematerialised outside the booths, but he's started so he'll finish. He's a stickler for that. The rest is history.

    Taken from an extended version of the episode, which is twenty minutes longer to accommodate Rimmer's lightbee getting lost in the maze of the AC system and taking his time to extricate himself from that rat..... (He still has nightmares about that. Twice in one afterlife-life. What a guy! ) .

    *what? Starbug had one when it was convenient and its never been used since!
     
  15. Decembers

    Decembers Deck Sergeant

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    Rimsy wasn't aboard starbug the first time it went up the rats bum.

    Unless there was a third rat violation that I've missed.
     
  16. Snow Cloud

    Snow Cloud Console Officer

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    In episode 4 season 3 why does Rimmer
     
  17. Decembers

    Decembers Deck Sergeant

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    Cos he was Lister innit.
     
  18. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I forgot that! My Doh! moment.

    I think he was kind of there in spirit.
     
  19. Smegerama

    Smegerama Supply Officer

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    Lister ate him in Meltdown. That's what I assumed you meant.
     
  20. HO HO HO I'M JMC

    HO HO HO I'M JMC Deck Sergeant

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    This hologram stuff IS genuinely thorny.

    Given the established convention of the "small physical presence", I think Rimmer being able to walk right through a door was nothing short of a script error, and we'll have to be quite generous to Explain That.

    But I think a wibblifying light bee is TOO generous. It violates Occam's Razor, and is likely to create plot holes for future episodes ("Why didn't Rimmer just wibblify his light bee, " etc.).

    So too, IMO, does the idea of an unseen light bee, somehow projecting Rimmer THROUGH an opaque object. If we admit that, future episodes will have a plot hole if the heroes need to know what's on the other side of a wall, and don't simply send Rimmer to look.

    If Rimmer could be on one side of the door, then the other, the simplest explanation is that he was being hosted by ERRA's own projectors, which were on both sides. I don't like the idea that ERRA has hard light capabilities, because my preferred theory (see previous!) was to assume that Legion's invention never saw the light of day. But it's been brought to my attention that Howard was hard light, so there's a clear precedent, showing the technology in wider use.

    We can assume from the earliest episodes that, prior to getting a light bee, Rimmer could be hosted by another facility. I agree that permission would normally be required, but can also believe ERRA had the equivalent of an "open WiFi network" in that regard (for starters, they're idiots - and it's less of a stretch than a solid light bee somehow "wibblifying", I feel?).

    Also, if Rimmer were a guest on ERRA's network, I suppose it makes more sense that he couldn't initiate the change himself. Sending commands to the host computer feels like something only Kryten could do. It also explains why soft light mode was purple instead of red on this occasion (i.e., it's an unfamiliar network with slightly different conventions in visual "theming").

    So, all in all, I think that's the best explanation. Rimmer only uses his light bee when he isn't being hosted by a ship- or station-wide network of projectors. In Entangled, he is doing the latter. And the fact that ERRA had hard and soft light modes is just more evidence of hard light in wider circulation.

    If we see Rimmer using his light bee on Red Dwarf itself, we can assume that the projectors don't have 100% coverage, and are only installed in areas where a soft light hologram would have business (this would have been a commonsensical cost-saving measure for JMC). And if he uses it on a ship that would support a hologram, we assume that the network wasn't "open" on that occasion.

    There isn't much "plot hole liability" going forward, I don't think?
     

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