Explain That?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Hollo_Marx, Sep 28, 2014.

  1. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I just watched this and noticed that, especially as Cat tells the simulant that she hadn't really met him the last time wearing the same suit. But, yeah, I think it came down to costume changes for the crew (or lack of!).

    A question arose for me while watching said ep: how did Rimmer get hold of some of his DNA to create the Rimmer clones on the planet?
     
  2. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    My own explanation for that is that as part of the process of backing up the crewmembers for the purposes of generating holograms the DNA is also scanned and recorded. It makes sense that they would do this as it would provide a readily available means of identifying remains in the event that, for example, an incompetent vending machine repairman might carry out shoddy repairs on the driveplate and the entire crew gets wiped out, but also for proving paternity and for assisting in criminal investigations too. Rimmer was able to use this record (Conveniently stored on his light-bee) to synthesise his own clones with the help of the machinery on the pod.

    I hasten to add at this point that this is purely my own explanation and I can point to nothing in either the shows or books to support any of this.
     
  3. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    Can someone please explain the whole "So wait a minute. Even if we didn't plant a bomb, the only thing that really explains what we're doing is if we did! Which we didn't! But we must have! Because, otherwise, what we're doing is totally nuts!" exchange between Cat Lister and Kochanski, when they're trying to get Kryten back from the Centauri in Beyond a Joke?

    The only explanation I can come up with is that Kochanski is saying that if they behave as though they've planted a bomb, the escaping Simulant will come to the same conclusion and turn back to chase them down.

    However, none of that explains why Lister and Cat are questioning whether or not they planted a bomb.
     
  4. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    It was a joke, and actually one I enjoyed.
     
  5. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    That's not how jokes work, but regardless, I'd still like it explaining.
     
  6. Pendo

    Pendo Supply Officer

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    You've pretty much answered that yourself. They didn't plant a bomb but by acting like they have they tricked the simulant into thinking they did and chasing them. It's been a while since I watched this episode but nothing stands out to me about Lister being confused here. The joke is referenced again when the Simulant says "We know about the bomb" "So there was a bomb!" but we the audience know that there wasn't.
     
  7. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Great joke :lol:

    I think it's a joke on Cat and Lister's stupidity.
     
  8. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    Having watched this episode just last night, I can confirm Lister does appear confused. Here's a transcript of the exchange.

    When Lister says, "Unless we really *have* planted a bomb on the Centauri." his brow is creased in confusion. It just doesn't make any sense.

    If it was a ploy, why did Kochanski simply not explain what her plan was? "Ok, guys, if we suddenly head in the opposite direction, at full speed, the Simulant will wonder why and suspect foul play... maybe that we've planted a bomb on their ship or something... and turn around to chase us down."

    The way it was scripted, suggested they'd suffered some kind of reality blip or memory wipe, and that fragments of something were slowly returning to their minds.
     
  9. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    There are two reasons I can think of, first they were still trying to firmly establish the gap between Kochanski as an educated, intelligent, capable, sophisticated officer and our Starbug crew who to keep it brief aren't, so it was scripted in a way that might make it seem so obvious to her that it didn't need spelled out, whilst it was completely bewildering to Lister and especially Cat. Second, it was part of the Joke and it just wouldn't have worked anywhere near as well if it had been explained to the others from the outset because then we wouldn't have seen Cat being portrayed as dim-witted and confused by something that was fairly obvious to the audience.

    For the record I agree with you that it wasn't a particularly funny or well executed joke, but that's what I'm sure it was pretty obviously supposed to be. It was definitely not the high water mark of Series VII for me at any rate.
     
  10. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    Yeah, I can get on board with that explanation.

    There will be more... my OCD will see to that.
     
  11. Clarence

    Clarence First Technician

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    So how come when rimmer was on rimmerworld for 600 years he didn't age, yet between series 8 and 10 he seems to have aged by about 13 years? 8)
     
  12. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    Rimmer is brought back as a companion to keep Lister sane, as such his Hologram ages at the same rate as Lister does in real life. On Rimmerworld, his Hologram is separated from Lister, it can't age alongside him (Or it knows that having had the time-dilation explained Lister will only age a few hours) so its aging is basically paused until they meet up again.
     
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  13. Clarence

    Clarence First Technician

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    I was asking it a bit tongue in cheek, but with such a good answer I will throw in another element then. If your answer is true then why In the book (backwards" when cat and lister reverse age down to 15 yrs old rimmer remains the same age! Explain that? :lol:
     
  14. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    Simons answer there was very accurate and correct.

    My verdict on the added twist in regards to the book...

    Does Holly not have a certain degree of control over Rimmers Hologram..which is why we saw petersons arm on rimmers body in series 1, probably because holly is more likely messing around with it for his own enjoyment. So Holly would have that added bit of control so Rimmer does not grow younger.
     
  15. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    There's another couple of explanations I can think of for Rimmer not aging in Rimmerworld when he did elsewhere.

    We know that generating holograms takes a lot of power. That suggests that the light-bee is primarily just a projection device, but the main program is run on the ship's computers. (In fact we've seen an entire room devoted to the hologram protection.)

    If there was an algorithm aging Rimmer it would be back on the ship (or in the case of power upgrades, Starbug)... and not much time would have passed for it relative to the light bee on Rimmerworld. Being projected by the light bee Rimmer is aware of the passage of time, but his aging is updated in a different time scale (I.e. hours rather than years/centuries.)

    That's if the light bee is just a projection device, of course, but there's strong reason to believe it became more than that when you consider the distance they are from the ship n series 6. Or they found some major new power-source in the interim.

    Another simpler explanation: the fact Rimmer aged in Out of Time and not Rimmerworld... Well that was the joke wasn't it? Rimmer is surprised himself! His future self has become so debauched even the data describing his appearance is affected!

    Yeah, in the real world it shouldn't work like that. (Maybe his future self intentionally had himself altered in which case the gag still works as it shows he's become so degraded his tastes are totally messed up.) But its not the real world.

    Question: when Rimmer is first booted up in Series 6, why would there be other visual templates for his hologram, I.e. animals, etc? Considering holographic crew-members are generally human in origin...

    I can think of an explanation (apart from the real one: it's another gag,) but this post is long enough.
     
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  16. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    The books are a generally regarded as a separate continuity, possibly two separate continuities since Last Human differs significantly from the others, as that's the only real way to explain the numerous inconsistencies between the books and the TV series. For the most part anything that's referred to in the books should stay in the books. ;-)

    The simplest other explanation I can think of is that just because the Holograms we've encountered so far have been human it doesn't mean that they have to be. If there's no pressing reason to use the Hologram generators to simulate a human crew member (For example if no human crewmember has died who needs replacing) there's no reason why it couldn't be used for experimental purposes for example to see how a given animal might be expected to react in certain situations, or even just to generate an artificial pet for the crew, all the damage to Oregon wouldn't have happened if there'd been hologramic bunnies aboard instead of real ones.
     
  17. Clarence

    Clarence First Technician

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    You guys are too good, I will have to think of a tougher one for you.
     
  18. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    I know we've covered this subject before, as it was me who asked it, but I've thought of a couple more since then.

    I've always had a bit of a fascination with food props in tv and film (instances when an actor has to eat something that stands in for something that couldn't/wouldn't be eaten under normal circumstances) and find myself wondering (for longer than is probably normal) what was used.

    Red Dwarf has its fair share of these and I'd love to hear others thoughts on what was probably used.

    Marooned: Lister eats 'dog food'. One of the more obvious and probably luncheon meat (jelly included for extra effect)

    Gunmen of the Apocalypse: Kryten is force fed 'coffee granules'. Some kind of instant chocolate granules, used to make a hot chocolate beverage??

    Legion: Lister eats 'Space Weevil' for dinner. Probably the toughest to identify, but my money is on a croissant or some form of specially shaped bread roll that's been disguised with food colouring.

    Any I've missed? The 'chicken/dead man' that Lister and Cat are eating in Tikka to Ride doesn't count as it's obviously a leg of roasted lamb... and delicious it looks too!
     
  19. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    In Lemons, when they make the lemon battery and return to Red Dwarf, where has the rejuvenation shower gone?
     
  20. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    In Stasis Leak, why are Kochanski and the earlier Lister so unfazed on meeting the future Lister?
     

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