Final Verdict of RDX?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by talkie3000, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. starlight84uk

    starlight84uk Third Technician

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    Loved it! A few forced jokes were a let down. But the characters, the acting, stories and most of the jokes were great. It would say it was almost as good as it's heyday and much better than series 7-9. With a few bits and pieces being ironed out, I have great hopes for the next series (if there is one).
     
  2. TouchT1701

    TouchT1701 Third Technician

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    I enjoyed it. :-D I'm not going to rate it. Sure, it could be better, but sometimes, you just have to accept what is if you can't have what if. Perhaps Doug will break down and bounce off a new writer, perhaps he'll keep slogging away by himself; so long as he's happy with what he's doing, why not. Bring on XI! Please! 8)
     
  3. TouchT1701

    TouchT1701 Third Technician

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    :-D That made me LOL for real... Maybe you could get Doug to let you polish his scripts. ;-)
     
  4. Goit_84

    Goit_84 First Technician

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    I enjoyed it, but it's not without its faults. It lies somewhere in the vast chasm below Series 1-6 and above 7-8.

    They really need to ditch the wacky cartoon humour. Red Dwarf 1-6 was crammed full of dead-panned, dry humour. Lister felt a bit Coronation Street and Rimmer felt a bit Gordon Brittas, while Cat and Kryten were sometimes played in a way you'd expect someone doing an impression of them; it's like they'd forgotten which gear to select at times, you know what I mean? Every now and then though, they sparkled as they once did, but they need to get used to being those characters a bit longer before it feels like they've reclaimed them.

    Kryten's mask needs lots of work, he looked like a character from Bo Selecta.

    But yeah, better than most dirge on TV, so more please!
     
  5. djmcbell

    djmcbell Supply Officer

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    Why thank you - you made 10 seconds worth of thinking worthwhile :-)

    Having now seen all 6 episodes, I would have to say that Red Dwarf X was a resounding success. It was not as good as it could have been, for various reasons, but after the huge amount of time between series, and how series 7, 8 and BTE are generally perceived by most (myself included, though I'm a lot kinder to BTE than most people seem), RDX has managed the seemingly impossible.

    It has managed to please a lot of people.

    The situations are funny. The cast are good and have good material. Mostly, the "feel" of Red Dwarf as a show is back to what it was. There is room for improvement, but this was a lot better than most of us expected and has made an old cult sitcom produced on a shoe-string budget into a huge success, in every sense of the word. My father has just seen Trojan (he lives in Australia) and really enjoyed it (he gave up mid-way through BTE) and my nephew (who also lives in Australia) is hankering to watch it on video (my father recorded it). We've got people in America wondering when they'll get it.

    I also find it interesting that people like, and dislike, different episodes. Some people think Lemons is the greatest episode ever, for instance, with some thinking the same way of Entangled, Trojan, Fathers & Suns - in fact, every episode has people who love it and rate it highly amongst ANY episode Red Dwarf has had (for me it's Trojan).

    A great return to form with a few flaws, but overwhelmingly good. I would award RDX a B probably, which next to the E's and F's it would have received from a huge number of people in series 7, 8 and BTE (after the string of A's and B's before it) is something everyone involved should be proud of.
     
  6. Love2fuss

    Love2fuss Skutter

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    Hi all,
    I'm new but just have to say re the 'racist joke' stuff. The joke was about chinese whispers itself. The cat didn't ask the vending machine "are chinese whispers racist?" he asked "are chinese whiskers racist?" and the vending machine relayed another version of the question later. The whole joke was about the way chinese whispers occur, made funny by the question in question being about chinese whispers! And I thought it was funny and well put together. :lol:

    As for the rest of it; some I liked, some I barely raised a smile at. But I'm glad it's back.
     
  7. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    You're right, that was one of the jokes and it was indeed a clever idea for a joke with a question about chinese whispers turning into a chinese whisper itself.
    I'm not sure why you're explaining that to us though since that isn't the joke that caused controversy. Indeed, that joke would still have worked if you omitted the Taiwan Tony scene entirely.

    It's a shame its taken you hundreds of posts to reveal that you actually have the same understanding of the joke as myself and many of the others who complained about TT in the first place. We were never, despite your seeming determination to tell us otherwise, under the illusion that it was included to indulge racist humour, instead we were concerned about how it could be so easily misunderstood.
    The joke was a poorly weighted one for precisely the reason that Doug used it as a throwaway gag, failing to properly convey his intentions.
    Just as Simulant, who is well intentioned in his concern, has mistaken the ironic intention of the joke for the more sinister mockery of the 1970's, can you now see how other people out there might tune in, see a racial stereotype and, missing the full ironic intention of the joke, be offended by it because they missed the context?
    Not everyone knows Doug Naylor's personality and not everyone will guess at his intentions. Look how even the simplest joke often passes people by on this forum. This was not one of the simpler ones.
    Can you now see how people with a rather more unsavory attitude to race than you and I possess might assume the show was directly engaging in xenophobia and laugh, not at the irony of the situation, but DIRECTLY at the voice itself? I'm glad that you don't know anyone who would, maybe that's a measure of your (presumably) younger generation. I can assure you, though, that I certainly do know and have met such people, because people of previous generations were more or less trained to indulge in this attitude. They didn't have the experience and opportunity for travel and worldliness that jobs like our shared profession have given both you and I and their nature is still, I'm afraid, quite rooted in imperialism and fear of foreigners.
    That has always been my primary concern with Taiwan Tony and I think you have to be slightly naive to believe there won't be a section of the audience who will have laughed for the wrong reasons when Kerry Shale struck up that comedy accent and missed the joke's overall intention...which, to be honest, wasn't really funny enough to justify the risk. As the poster above points out, the chinese whispers subplot itself was strong enough to support a C plot and a much fresher idea.
    This is why I find the episode uncomfortable, because it could have so easily been avoided by the simple omission of the Taiwan Tony character. Instead he is there for one scene, a throwaway joke...and you can't address such a weighty, problematic field of humour in such a throwaway fashion without the danger of your intentions being lost.

    EDIT: after posting I find Freeborn has already said this far better than I.
     
  8. Love2fuss

    Love2fuss Skutter

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    Bedfordfalls, I was explaining it because some people didn't seem to get it, concentrating more on the vending machine rather than the actual concept of the joke, yet saying they didn't like 'the chinese whispers joke'. One person even said the Cat asked the vending machine if chinese whispers are racist, which to me says the joke hasn't been got...
     
  9. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    You're right, it's one of many jokes which were misunderstood. Which is the overall problem with the episode. Too many things going on to be tackling such big ideas so sparingly.
     
  10. Love2fuss

    Love2fuss Skutter

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    Bedfordfalls... Ah, I understand your point now. Agreed :-)
     
  11. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    Whatever - it still WAS NOT RACIST. People don't get what racism is, it seems. Racism is treating someone different (whether in a negative or positive manner) because of their race. There was use of the accent, it was not mocking, it was stereotypical, yes, but that was to make a point for the joke. It wasn't THE joke. There will be idiots that laugh at that, if they are smart enough to understand red dwarf in the first place, in fact I found a clip on youtube about it where someone had titled it with a racist misquote from Kryten where they replaced the word knickers with something absolutely disgusting to find funny, with a few "LOL"s thrown in, now my friend, that IS racist.
     
  12. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Indeed. The running Chinese Whispers gag is separate-yet-interrelated to the joke surrounding the "Tastes Of Asia" vending machine. The intended 'funny' twist being that much to the crew's apparent ignorance - or naivety if you like - they were asking a question about racism, to a machine that is, in and of itself a massively inappropriate racial stereotype.

    The added unintentional irony now being that not only were the fictional Red Dwarf crew focusing on the whole Chinese Whispers issue while 'blissfully' unaware of the genuine "elephant in the room", a lot of fans are reacting in the exact same way!...Still! :shock:

    *puts on a Doug Naylor voice* "Now that's funni" :lol:

    There seems to have been a wide variety of reactions to this scene and sub-plot. Some of them more understandable than others, I think. Here's a little list of what may or may not have been some of the initial perceptions;

    1. They were merely laughing at the Chinese Whispers gags. The whole racial stereotype thing - in all sincerity - went blissfully over their heads. And the voice used?; "Well, it's just a comedy voice, innit? No different to that annoying vending machine in 'Only the good'. And no different to any other accent in any other episode of Red Dwarf. I don't see what the problem is."

    2. The character was instantly recognised as being a massively inappropriate stereotype, but the intentions and reasoning behind that fact were not initially understood. And so they felt rather uncomfortable by the whole thing - feeling somewhat deflated and confused - wondering why such a cool guy as Doug would be so misguided or naive to use an offensive stereotype seemingly just for cheap laughs.

    3. They were massively offended and thought Doug was being a big old racist; "Red Dwarf has never been racist before so why has this element been brought into the show now!? I'm deeply disappointed, genuinely upset and may quite possibly never watch the show again!"

    4. They laughed at how funny they thought the voice of this over-the-top racial stereotype was - getting some kind of unsavoury kick out of the mocking of the Chinese accent and what they perceive to be their cultural traits.

    5. They completely understood the intentions right away. Laughing both at the on-going Chinese Whispers gags, and the intended irony of the crew naively asking a racial stereotype about a game that Rimmer seems to think is racist.

    So, hands up which of you instantly fit into the latter category. :eek:


    Edit:
    This.

    I just made a cup of tea (decaffeinated) before catching up on the posts I'd missed and just thought this needed adding. This whole discussion really shouldn't have caused as much confusion as it did really as various people including bedfordfalls have been over it time and time again, only to be misunderstood time and time again for some reason unbeknown to me.

    I have various theories as to why it did though...but perhaps it's best I don't go into that right now or it may kick-off yet another needlessly complex debate. :lol:
     
  13. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I just checked and indeed Cat asks Lister the question "Are Chinese whiskers racist". To which Lister then seems to think he's talking about "those little whispy beards they wear". Before saying; "Do you know who might know? That Asian fast food machine on B-Deck".

    Cat: Why would he know?
    Lister: 'cause Taiwan Tony's from Taiwan. And Taiwan's a bit Chinesey.

    So, yeah it was "Chinese Whiskers" by that point. But as you say it's not all that relevant really. The point is they're asking a racial stereotype if something is racist.
     
  14. ojideagu

    ojideagu Skutter

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    Eh! :shock:

    Those have two of my favourite scenes of all time.

    The "Holoship" Scene with the Hologram banks is an all time classic and better than anything
    in series X "Lister to Red Dwarf"

    The scene in Stasis Leak where they first enter the shower is a classic. Cat is totally confused
    about what a stasis leak is and keeps saying "What is it!" to Lister and Rimmer after each explanation.

    I feel Series 7 is better than X. X has a few good moments but is a bit like watching embarrasing dads.
     
  15. ojideagu

    ojideagu Skutter

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    I agree It's a classic! The best line I think is the Cat constantly asking "WHAT IS IT!!!"

    And the Holoship scene with Banks is one of my all time favourites.
     
  16. ojideagu

    ojideagu Skutter

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    The strange thing is Red Dwarf played on that fallacy themselves when they get a time drive. ( I think series 6)

    They expect to time travel back to earth, but logic kicks in when Kryten tells them they are still in deep space in the 16th century (or whenever it was)

    They have to acquire a Faster than Light drive to get back to earth. The older versions of themselves finally
    get this drive in the Last episode of series 6 hence the ending.

    So It's strange that Red Dwarf went back to using that fallacy as a plot device. Maybe It was done in Irony?


    Also considering how difficult it was to obtain both drives and their holy grail in series 6, eventually leading to their destruction in series 6, It's strange how the idea has been receycled but this time they all treat the time device like It's a New Playstation 4 or a DVD player, to just play around with for fun, rather than the holy grail time device to get them back to earth. They seem to have completely forgotten the past.
     
  17. roebeet

    roebeet Third Technician

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    I liked it. Will take some time to sink to see where it "fits" in repeat viewings, but so I can honestly say that it's better than Series 8 (sans Cassandra) and most of Series 7. I actually liked "Lemons" a LOT -- seems like it's one of those episodes you either really like, or you really hate.

    It was a real mish-mosh, not unlike Series 6 in some ways. Some ideas rehashed / reworked, but really the strength of the series imo was the four main characters. We had that in Series 3 to 6, then it got muddled a bit in S7, and then VERY muddled in S8. But BTE we basically got back the Big Four again sans the audience laughter and 30 minute sitcom setting, and then back in full form in S10.

    I'd love to see a S11 really wow us. Maybe a full cat story, for example - now that it's back to four dudes, one last male human and a (mostly) empty universe, they can a lot of ideas to explore. It's rare that you have a show with all the main actors available after so many years, to be able to continue the characters we love. I hope we see a S11, but even if this is the last series then at least they went out on a fairly high note.

    Have the BD on pre-order!
     
  18. mingle

    mingle Third Technician

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    I pretty much agree with roebeet - an interesting series, much better than most of 7 & 8 and far better without Kochanski (sorry!)...

    I've only watched each episode once, so it'll take a few more viewings for things to 'sink in', but I too though "Lemons" was a
    stand-out episode. Very funny, if a bit close to the bone for religious-types. And the cameo by Indira Joshi was brilliant!

    The overall 'feel' of all six shows was great - the external shots, the sets, the costumes were all pretty much spot-on, far better than
    the stark high-tech look of BTE...

    A few of the jokes seems a bit laboured - far to much backwards and forward repetition of key phases or word, between the characters.

    I suspect some input from Rob Grant would've improved things in this area... Ah well...

    Whether or not there is is another series, this one definitely gets the thumbs-up from me.

    Cheers,

    Mike.
     
  19. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    That scene in "Holoship" with Commander Binks is indeed an all time classic. :-) However the episode overall, for me at least, is definitely the weakest one in series V.

    As for "Stasis Leak", I only watched that again a couple of days ago nearing the end of my latest "Red Dwarf Marathon"! :lol: It's not a bad episode, and I've never thought that. The problem is, series II overall, is a very strong series. And "Stasis Leak", even though it is great, is slightly weaker than episodes like "Better Than Life", "Thanks For The Memory", and "Kryten".
     
  20. Skemekos

    Skemekos Third Technician

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    Thumbs up from me!:-D
     

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