Final Verdict of RDX?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by talkie3000, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    hopefully if we get more like entangled its more a straight forward adventure and not something even steven moffat would scratch his head at

    im all for clever storys but give the episode some room to breath ;-)
     
  2. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Something that's notable on the DVD is how often Doug says things to the effect of "I thought we needed to get on with the story" usually when justifying shortening or removing a scene. On occasion (in particular with most of the deleted scenes) I think he's right but on others I just think "really? what was the rush".
    I think he worries that a scene will become boring if its played for too long but Entangled was a classic example of brilliant concept that the audience simply couldn't keep up with. Goodness knows where he was planning to fit in the original subplot involving the chimp. I'm guessing we'd have lost the health and safety stuff if that was included as intended.
     
  3. "Christmas rubbish"

    "Christmas rubbish" Flight Co-Ordinator

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    And that, ladies and gentlemen, was the last ever post by Tex Rimmer; my arch nemesis!!!

    I wonder where he went...
    Will he return??
     
  4. mychemicaldwarf

    mychemicaldwarf Second Technician

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    Really good. It's no coinkydink that the "split over several episodes" episodes are the least popular ones. There was nothing in Back to Earth, Back in the Red and Pete that couldn't have been condensed into one episode. I can't really think of a Red Dwarf episode that would have been strong enough to stretch to an hour plus and still retained the quality. The best Dwarf episodes are the ones that are pretty much self-contained stories without lots of padding. Series X went back to that formula and there isn't a bad episode.
     
  5. misterjohnsparks

    misterjohnsparks Second Technician

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    A strong restart that captures the mood and much of the humour of Red Dwarf series I - VI. Dropping the formulaic approach (repeat gags, rigid episode structure) of series VI made it feel much fresher than it had any right to be. Among the genuine laughs were some forced gags with overacting causing the characters to occasionally become caricatures of themselves. Over all this did little to dampen the momentum of this fine Red Dwarf series. C+
     
  6. "Christmas rubbish"

    "Christmas rubbish" Flight Co-Ordinator

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    And what is everyone's thoughts on Tex Rimmer?
     
  7. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    Is this relevant to the topic being discussed? :?
     
  8. "Christmas rubbish"

    "Christmas rubbish" Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Yes
     
  9. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    I'm going to watch this series again in it's entirety tonight. My recollection of it, is that overall, it was noticeably weaker than what I've been treated to in Series XI so far. I want to see if the passage of time will alter my opinion of it any...
     
  10. "Christmas rubbish"

    "Christmas rubbish" Flight Co-Ordinator

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    But what about Tex Rimmer?
     
  11. jimmydischarge

    jimmydischarge Third Technician

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    Not my favourite season. There was some moments, but those episodes just don't make want to watch them over and over like I do with seasons 2-6. I think my favourite eps from RDX were probably Trojan and Fathers And Suns (although I hated that whole vending machine sub plot). I'm definitely liking RDXI more already and the season isn't finished yet.
     
  12. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    Just finished watching the whole series again, and overall, it has slightly risen in my estimation since the last time I watched it. The main issue still remains though, that most of the episodes have good moments, but are also too flawed overall to be elevated to a level above merely decent. "Dear Dave" is still one of the all time worst episodes of Dwarf for me, but "Entangled" is better than I recalled it being. I still don't love the latter episode, but my view of it now is not as harsh as it was the first couple of times I viewed it.

    The only two episodes from this series I think can really live with the stuff from the first 6 series, are the opening episode "Trojan", and the finale "The Beginning". And the latter episode remains one of my all time favourites. Looking back on it, I see this as like a bridge series between the decline of Series' VII, VIII, BTE, and the real resurrection of Series XI. It retains some of the disppointing aspects of those declining years, but also offers up some moments that truly hark back to classic Dwarf. Series X was like the baby steps Doug was taking in trying to recapture the magic of Dwarf at it's best. And in the end, this series is like a collection of both his failings, and his successes, in that regard.
     
  13. AJ Smeggnog

    AJ Smeggnog Second Technician

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    With Series XI over and done with, I decided to watch Red Dwarf X over the weekend to see, basically, how if I feel about Series X is the same as it was first time round, and also how it compares with our most recent series. I liked RDX a lot and going back over it, I have to say I still rate the series pretty highly...

    TROJAN: I've said it before, but man I really love this episode. Pretty much from the second scene onwards I found myself laughing the whole way through. I would say it's very much a sci-fi light, comedy heavy episode, but that's no bad thing. Not everyone thinks Trojan is all that, but for me it's honestly the highlight of the series. It's certainly an episode I feel I can dip back into whenever I'm in the mood for some good Dwarf.

    FATHERS & SUNS: Watching this again, boy, was this close to being something special. I know I'm repeating sentiments already expressed about this episode, but the fatherly Lister and villainous Pree angles are fantastic, but that damn Chinese Whispers and subsequent Taiwan Tony element really drags the episode down. It ruins the tone and it's just not funny. If you can ignore that (which I admittedly struggle to), then Fathers & Suns should be considered a bit of a gem.

    LEMONS: This is one of those episodes which has a diminishing return effect when I go back to it. First time round, I was more than fine with it, but looking back now I find the episode too silly, even annoying in most parts (e.g. Rimmer's calculator gag, who holds Jesus's penis, etc...). It's the worst ep in RDX in my view.

    ENTANGLED: This wasn't as great as I remember it being, but I still think it's very good for the most part. One thing that annoyed me more than anything though was the laughter: it seemed OTT in this episode, a lot of the gags were getting bigger/louder laughs than they needed to (am I the only one who felt like this?). However, one thought that particularly came to mind when watching Entangled was how I would have loved if an extended version of this episode had been what we'd got in replacement of Back To Earth. I feel like this would have been a great re-introduction to Red Dwarf for viewers whilst bridging the gap from Series VIII (probably just me thinking that, though).

    DEAR DAVE: Honestly, I'm rather fond of this episode. I know it's not to everyone's taste, but I love the calmness of it all. It's probably the most chilled out episode of Red Dwarf there is (and ever will be), plus it gives a real sense of what day-to-day life is for the Dwarfers when they're not having an adventure. I wouldn't compare this to a classic like Marooned, but it's a massive improvement on, say, Duct Soup. Lister's interactions with Rimmer throughout, as well as the two vending machines, plus Cat's charades game and him frustrating Lister about Roy were the "humour highlights" for me. For an episode that came about the way it did, I think Doug's Dear Dave should get more credit than it does, barring the slag ending, of course.

    THE BEGINNING: I enjoyed this one as well. There's a great mixture of comedy and seriousness (for the latter, I'm thinking of the young Rimmer's performance and our Rimmer's climatic actions), though even now I still think the Simulant threat should have been played more straight, less daft. There is an Out of Time-vibe that I do like, but yet I definately prefer Trojan. Please don't shoot me. :eek:ops:

    I'm still a massive fan of RDX. I like it a lot and I think it packs a pretty awesome value of entertainment. Sure, it's not II-VI in terms of sheer quality, but I still prefer it to the other series', even Series I (though nothing in Series X is as good as Future Echoes). Thinking about the ranking thread slainmonkey has done, I'd rate RDX like this:

    Trojan - 8
    Fathers & Suns - 7 (I'd genuinely have said this was an 8 or 9 if wasn't for the aforementioned Chinese Whispers angle)
    Lemons - 6 (or if harsh, 5.5)
    Entangled - 7
    Dear Dave - 7
    The Beginning - 7
    Average Score = 7 (or if harsh, 6.92 out of 10)

    Is XI better? Yeah, I'd say it is (I certainly prefer Give & Take and Officer Rimmer to anything RDX had to offer AND RDXI does nothing as bad as Lemons), but I don't think XI is far and away better than X. RDX is pretty damn good.
     
  14. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    Series X has always been very much a mixed bag to me. I wasn't completely satisfied with it at the time, and very little has changed with that. It was kinda a crude rough draft for modern Red Dwarf, and as important as it is....it's not great either.

    Trojan - I feared the worst upon watching this episode because for my money it's one of the worst non-Series VIII episodes ever made. Of all of modern Red Dwarf this episode it felt the most series VIIIish, I thought Howard Rimmer was rubbish and the less said Bout the call centre plot the better!

    Fathers and Suns - If there was ever an episode of Red Dwarf that needed a fan edit, it's this one. I actually think that the 2 main plots with Lister's Father's Day plot and the Pree plot really work together excellently. This episode might have been the best if not for Taiwan Tony and the medi computer!

    Lemons - This is the first episode that I felt geninuely satisfied with, it also didn't suffer from the usual problems of this series of subplots used to pad out it's run time. It's not perfect however has there are some jokes that landed with a thud, but even with it's problems it's a fun time travel episode!

    Entangled - This a better episode then it's reputation I feel, Infact I would say it was the strongest first 20 minutes of any episode this series. The issues come with the introduction of Irene which feels like a tacked on conclusion, which it was. Still issues aside I do enjoy this one on the whole!

    Dear Dave - Oh boy, what a trainwreck this episode is! This is the worst non-series VIII episode of Red Dwarf, and the production problems of it are evident in almost every scene. The thing with this one is that it has almost no plot and feels like a crudely stitched together Frankenstien's monster!

    The Begining - This was one of the tighter episode this series, maybe because it was made from recycled material from the unmade Red Dwarf movie. If I was to complain about it, I would say that Rimmer's revelation with his father seemed unnecessary to me, still it was a strong episode to end the series on!

    Trojan - 3
    Fathers And Suns - 6
    Lemons - 7
    Entangled - 7
    Dear Dave - 2
    The Beginning - 7
    Average Score = 5.33

    I was never fully convinced with this series, that's part of what made me surprised by how much I actually liked series XI. Still I don't wanna be too down on this series, because it was what put Red Dwarf back on the right track.....even if it's a bit of a mess on the whole!
     
  15. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    1. The Beginning
    This episode has a solid story from start to finish, and the audience was really involved in what was going on because they were in immediate external danger. I was a bit confused about the resolution because why didn't the missiles collide. Rimmer says all the ships are level, so surely the missiles would hit the opposing missile. Why do all the missles come through Starbug one at a time when they were all fired at the same time. Wouldn't all the missiles collide inside Starbug? But I like that the resolution with the Molecular Destabiliser was actually woven into the episode from the start and came back around at the end. Some of XI's episodes had these sudden resolutions tacked onto the end that fell flat for me. Speaking of the start, I love the start with Hogie the Roguey. I thought it was a clever tease, the idea that the Dwarfers had been having epic duels across time and space that the audience hadn't seen, and would love to see, but the Dwarfers themselves are bored of them. I liked the new Simulants, and their buerocracy. Like the hari-kari joke. The reveal with Rimmer's dad worked for me because, in Lister's words, a billion-piece jigsaw suddenly falls into beautiful place.

    2. Fathers and Suns

    Great to see a follow up of Ouroborous, where Lister being his own dad mattered. Wasn't quite sure where Pree came from; had she been available the whole time? Why were they only just installing her? Or did they take her off the Trojan off-camera? Didn't like the medi-computer man, we've seen them in the medi-bay so many times so why have we never seen him before or since. Didn't like the strange little subplot about Chinese Whispers being racist so ask Taiwan Tony. I get it, calling someone Taiwan Tony is racist. Felt like a bit of Dear Dave had leaked into Fathers and Suns. It had nothing to do with the Father-plot or the Pree-plot, I guess it was there so Cat had something to do. It also seemed weird to me to have Rimmer chastise Kryten for using a potentally racist traditional phrase, when Rimmer subscribes to Fascist Dictator Monthly.

    3. Trojan
    Call centre plot didn't work because it's a home shopping network, not a helpdesk. Why would they keep him on hold, especially when he's ostensibly the only human in the universe so who else would be calling. It also got me thinking about how much cash Lister has on Red Dwarf. There must be a finite amount salvaged from lockers. Any Dollarpounds on the crew would have been destroyed. I also didn't like the way the two Holo-Rimmers met each other and didn't show any interest in why the other was a hologram and why had Rimmer been a holo-captain for centuries without his family finding out. After watching The Beginning, it got me wondering if maybe Howard was a son of Dungo too.

    4. Entangled
    I liked the opening kebab-on-the-monitor joke. BEGGs annoyed me. Why introduce "BEGGs" as a new species when they're virtually identical to the regular Kinitowawi GELFs. It was like this new species was invented just so Kryten could have a one-liner about Lister's bad breath. And the part about "I ate someone from an English boarding school" had me trying to work out how that would be possible and why the Dwarfers didn't show any interest in a human-sighting. The joke wasn't funny enough to justify the plot-quicksand it triggered. The groinal-exploder and subsequent testicle-word-jokes were tedious. It was nice to see a bit of continuity where Lister thought Irene E might be Kochanski, though I was confused about Kochanski being 31. The resolution where because her name is Irene Edington they should assume her last guess is actually right left me a bit cold. And the Quantum Entanglement that the episode is named after turned out to have little to do with the plot, and is mostly a distraction where Cat and Kryten speak at the same time.

    5. Dear Dave

    I didn't like the introduction of a new ex-girlfriend this late in the game. We've never heard of Hayley Summers, I guess she was after Lisa Yates. Could have just been Lisa Yates; a missed opportunity for continuity. And Lister getting a letter from a new ex-girlfriend saying she's seven-weeks-pregnant and he might be the father opened up all sorts of awkward questions about the timing of mail-pods and how long Lister had been on Red Dwarf for. The mailpod in Better Than Life contained letters addressed to Lister, so when were they written. And the episode in general is just awkward, uncomfortable viewing. Gory details about Lister being cheated on. Can't stand Cat painting the picture of Hayley with Roy. Cheating isn't really funny in my opinion. But I actually don't mind the vending-machine banter. The side-plot about Rimmer not reporting for duty for three million years had me confused. Why now, and why not Lister too.

    6. Lemons
    I'm not a fan of the back-to-Earth episodes, and this was the worst offender (Back to Earth itself is okay because it didn't happen!). The "Rejuvination Shower" has got to be the most tenuous back-to-Earth machine they've collected thus far. It rejuvinates you, but if you align the brackets wrong it transports you across the universe 3,006,320 years ago. Death-trap! And we didn't even get an explanation as to where it had come from, Kryten just says "it was in transit". What does that even mean, was it another mailpod? I also found the idea of them walking from Britain to India a bit of a stretch. Rimmer's calculator joke seems to drag on forever, and it wasn't funny to begin with.
     
  16. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    It's odd when binge watching this series, after I get past what I feel was a lousy opener with Trojan....I really feel like the series (inspite of obvious problems) starts to get a flow going for the next few episodes. This flow comes to a crashing halt when you get to Dear Dave.....that episode is a slog to get through before what was a decent finale. I might actually be more forgiving of series X if I didn't hate 2 of it's episodes as much as I did.....it almost undoes the series' decent moments.
     
  17. "Christmas rubbish"

    "Christmas rubbish" Flight Co-Ordinator

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    And there it is. The final post of my biggest enemy!! :x
     
  18. "Christmas rubbish"

    "Christmas rubbish" Flight Co-Ordinator

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    It's like looking at the frozen ash figures in Pompeii! :eek:
     
  19. Snow Cloud

    Snow Cloud Console Officer

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    One day you will have to tell us the feud between you and Tex Rimmer Ant.
     
  20. "Christmas rubbish"

    "Christmas rubbish" Flight Co-Ordinator

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    A lot of the evidence has been deleted. If he ever has the nerve to show his face round here, all will be revealed!! :mad:
     

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