Holly in series XII?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF XI / XII' started by jamespotter, Nov 4, 2016.

  1. jamespotter

    jamespotter Skutter

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    what chances of finally getting Holly back? I see that Hattie still takes part in cons etc. she must be up for it. I know Norman's burnt his bridges. Wouldn't the return of Holly be great? I know it's the age-old question but what do you reckon?
     
  2. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    Not if it's Hattie, no.
     
  3. Pendo

    Pendo Supply Officer

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    I disagree! I love Hattie and her version of Holly.

    I also love Norman's version of Holly. True, Norman has had a difficult relationship with the show but this seems to have calmed over the past few years and I think, if Holly was to return, it would most likely be him as he was the character to play him last. It might be too confusing if it was constantly flipping between Norm, Hattie, back to Norm, back to Hattie.

    If Holly was to return, I don't care which version it is as long as he/she's funny and given something decent to do, otherwise there's no reason for the character to be there.
     
  4. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    I have a feeling holly will be in an episode of Series 12, i have not been to any audience recordings so i am guessing purely from normans recent radio interview where he may or may not have subtly hinted about his involvement.

    As for what i think about norman coming back... not fully sold if honest, its like making a fuss for him to come back for series 8 and getting a dumb holly who just appeared every so often to crack dumb jokes that have now gone to the cat for Series XI, but the part that worries me the most is the effect normans ego will have on the production, norman will obviously want to get alot of jokes jokes and doug will feel pressured to make room for them and so we will probably get some forced in moments to include holly for some jokes.

    And sadly i think this series at the moment is struggling to do several things that doug is trying to struggle to be clever and often it just becomes a mess where perhaps somethings shouldn't be there to make it better.

    I do think holly is important to the show though but way more important than normans ego.
     
  5. percyP

    percyP Third Technician

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    I hope not. Just don't see that there's a need for that character anymore.
     
  6. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    But for the best part of the series' life Holly was as big a character as the rest.

    I'm sure Hattie is a lovely woman, but with all the respect in the world she's a dreadful actor, so as much as I would like to see the character return, I'd want it to be Norman playing it.
     
  7. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I seem to recall an article posted here about the live show which mentioned Hattie Hayridge being involved?? Or have I imagined that :?
     
  8. Pendo

    Pendo Supply Officer

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    I can't remember where the article was from but I remember reading it myself. The article seemed to jump to conclusions as the video it linked to showed Danny John-Jules and Chris Barrie talking about the live shows, yet Hattie was just sat there like a gooseberry with nothing to add. She made no hint or suggestion that she is involved in any way.
     
  9. McCloud

    McCloud Third Technician

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    If they want Holly back at all I think it's best to do it for just one episode. Perhaps Holly is in peril and the crew have to save him or it's a Holly from a different universe with a different personality. This would give that character pure focus and let us say goodbye to Holly properly.

    Holly is such a major character throughout the series and it would be sad not to see him/her again but you can't let it be a detriment to the show. Just to throw a character in for fan service doesn't progress the show at all. It's why we haven't seen Ace or Dibley in a long time as there hasn't been a story good enough for them to appear without ruining the whole drive and plot of an episode.
     
  10. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I would like to see Holly return, even if just for one or two episodes. Norman was always my personal favourite but it seems he wasn't always the easiest actor to work with. And I can't help but suspect that he might not be happy with the naturally limited part the character would play at this point. Whereas, from what I can tell, Hattie seems much more accommodating, more likely to accept things as they are without constantly moaning or begging for more lines.

    With that said, I think it's fair to say that Norman's infamous moaning, in part, served the show quite well in the early years. I mean, had he not moaned about being on screen and having more lines Holly would've just been a voice-over role, and Queeg may never have been written! However, I'm not sure such moaning would serve the show so well at this point.

    But nonetheless, I'd still like to see the character return for a short while. And if it does happen I suspect Doug would chose Norman. Which would make me happy. But I'd welcome Hattie's return too. :-)
     
  11. Callisto252

    Callisto252 Supply Officer

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    I'd love to see Hattie return, particularly with the series IV/V vibe they've got going now. Yes, Norman was great (in I and II at least) and Holly as a character was definitely diminished during her stint in the role, but she was my first Holly so I've always had a soft spot for her version. And agree, she seems like such a lovely, accommodating person who has always remained loyal to Red Dwarf - she deserves a comeback of some form!
     
  12. Decembers

    Decembers Deck Sergeant

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    I liked Holly as a character, both versions but I think the ship has sailed. Yes there are times when a super computer might be better than a 'Best Guess' but I think its restrictive just having the character there and needing to crowbar them in. I have no massive problem with a 'cameo' but if Holly comes back, Holly has to leave again, which seems pointless.
     
  13. HO HO HO I'M JMC

    HO HO HO I'M JMC Deck Sergeant

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    I've come round to thinking I want Holly back - even if he or she only gets a few "woofers" per episode, and spends the rest of the time floating on the monitors. The ship just doesn't feel like the ship without a visible AI.

    You know what else I really miss? Windows. It occurred to me quite late in the day, but I don't think the current set has any windows. I struggle to suspend disbelief nowadays - partly, I think, because I'm less used to the "live studio" format, with the audience laughing off-camera - and a few starry windows would reinforce the idea that they're actually in space. As it is, it feels a bit too much like they're mucking around in front of some chairs.

    It's not just the style of the show. I think it's also because I follow the production online, with all the tweets, cast interviews, etc..
     
  14. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I too would very much like to see some windows in the main sets. We saw a few during series X, one when Hogey the Rogey was blown against the forth wall, and again when Lister was floating outside and trying to get Kryten to let him in. And those moments, while brief, really do help the idea that they're on a ship in space. But it's not as effective as having permanent windows we can see.

    One of the few things I prefer about the remastered version of series & 2 is the windows with a proper moving backdrop. It gives the scenes a nice additional quality of spaciness.
     
  15. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    I agree and disagree at the same time, it's clear holly wasn't meant to be written out, Doug was trying to put holly in BTE but didn't know if he could fit the character in, then Norman had a hissy fit about it and that meant holly was out for the time being and I honestly don't think Doug had any plan to bring hattie back as I really don't think he knows how to write for Hattie while with Norman... Well just look at series 8, you play on his deadpan dumbness.

    I do worry about holly returning with Norman though mostly because Norman has an big ego and I could see time needing to be made in stories just to give holly some jokes when a lot of time is already being wasted on multiple things in the last series alone.

    although saying that the stuff in give and take with the cat talking about history actually wouldn't feel out of place if it was holly saying that stuff, infact it probably would fit more so, even though it's just the dumb character role.

    Overall I do think holly is important to the show as he/she is the ships computer and it does add something having him/her there but at the same time holly shouldn't need special treatment as he/she is just a head on a screen and so should be there to suit a purpose for the show and say what they want about hattie but her holly being there did bring a presence to the show.
     
  16. sundayforsammy

    sundayforsammy Deck Sergeant

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    I totally agree with all that you have said here, you have hit the nail on the head.
     
  17. Chadwilliam

    Chadwilliam Skutter

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    Though it would likely be cost-prohibitive, I'd actually like to see both Hollys return. Given the fact that one of the tennents of the show is "it doesn't matter how advanced technology becomes in the future, nothing will be immune to glitches" what if Norman Lovett played Holly aboard Red Dwarf and Hattie Hayridge played the role aboard Starbug and/or on those little watches during away missions such as the one Lister wore in series VIII? One Holly's image is stuck onboard Red Dwarf's computer screens while the other's is stuck on Starbug's. Could be a glitch Holly can't put right, could be intentional on the part of a senile computer that has already been shown to be willing to switch genders on a whim.

    I've never really agreed with the idea that Kryten's presence in the show made Holly redundant especially given the fact that Holly worked quite well coexisting with Kryten for four seasons. As a matter of fact - and it might be poor decorum to criticize the show in what is only my second post here, but... ah, what the Hell - I feel that in recent years, Red Dwarf has lost the sense that these characters, unique as they are, should possess and display realistic, three-dimensional personas which would fit in perfectly even if the show weren't a comedy. Instead, it seems at times as if the characters exist as a vessel through which to deliver gags. It's kind of hard to argue against this approach given how well a lot of those gags work, but it seems as if we've lost the Lister, for example, who realizes that deep down inside he could be so much more if he applied himself but wrestles too much with the hopelessness that is life as the last man on Earth to achieve this. The Rimmer whose greatest flaw isn't that he comes up with excuses about not "having the right nobby set of parents" but that those excuses are actually justified but he's too self-destructive to overcome the neuroses this realization engenders.

    I think the problem (and again, this is a problem I have so feel free to disagree) is that Doug Naylor is very good at writing bizarre, absurd comedy that works well coming out of those with exceptionally low IQs. Without Holly however, those lines get spoken by a member of the cast who shouldn't have an IQ of six. Rimmer deciding to spontaneously break out in dance while he's supposed to be monitoring the crew's progress in Back to Earth didn't seem right to me - Rimmer's cowardly sure, but not stupid. Holly however...

    Holly served the vital purpose of putting into context how much of a "Mickey Mouse" organization the Red Dwarf team was - he/she gave the crew something to react to and in so doing, allowed each of the characters to take their turn as the straight man in the comedy line-up. Without Holly however, it feels at times as if you have four characters competing to act sillier and dumber than they should and without someone to stand back and point out how absurd things are, you lose... well, something.

    ...what was the question again?
     
  18. PFMC84

    PFMC84 Catering Officer

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    If Holly was to return, I'd prefer Hattie. If the character was to return for a one off appearance to put the character to bed, I'd like both Norman and Hattie to return and they both get screentime as per whatever story is introduced to get Holly back.
     
  19. RainbowGazelle

    RainbowGazelle Second Technician

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    You haven't watched Family Guy for a long time, have you?
     
  20. bilbobagenz

    bilbobagenz Third Technician

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    I like the Idea of holly coming back, I would really love to see talkie toaster coming back also even for 1 episode, after all the two of them have unfinished business, anyway only a few months and we will all find out.
    What about the rumour that Two new series are planned. Fair enough I just started the rumour but it has to start somewhere.
     

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