Holly?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by voo7hees, May 12, 2010.

  1. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    Ok, first off you make some good points. But this one I've heard before, and is a real head scratcher for me. For one thing, I've never seen Jasper Carrot before, so they're new to me. #2 recycling your own jokes isn't that uncommon or that horrible, so long as they're funny. Jeff Foxworthy has told the same joke for his entire career. Series 6 had running gags that were essentially the same joke over and over again. So Paul Alexander did it too. Big deal. You know what's usually considered worse? Stealing someone else's joke. But sometimes this isn't as big of a deal as it can be either. Especially if you arrived independently at the joke by mere coincidence. Like in BTE. At least I hope so/hypothesize so. What am I talking about? The Cat mixing up "testicles" and "tentacles". Wonderful little underrated gem of the 1980's had that idea before: "Better off Dead" starring John Cusak. Not original, but still funny.

    Alright, now that one really was strangely bad. What was the point of all that repetition? Some of that needed to be left on the cutting room floor.

    I agree that her delivery here wasn't great, but I am a Clare Grogan kind of guy afterall.

    It was all for the sake of comedy, for sure. But that's keeping in the spirit of series 8 in general: comedy first, sci fi second. Nothing really wrong with that, per se. And yes, as I stated previously earlier episodes (like you mentioned, Future Echoes were better written, no doubt).

    That certainly doesn't matter a jot to me either. The CGI dinosaur was funny. Though I'd prefer a puppet or model (but my views on CGI have been expressed extensively in other posts). I agree that the time wand was cool, but the twist was the dinosaur, as if to say "Things go wrong alot with the Dwarfers, don't they?"
     
  2. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    You know who else uses jokes they've used in other shows? Rob Grant and Doug Naylor. You know when and where? Series I and II of Red Dwarf. And no, not just Dave Hollins bits, either.

    Now to be fair, there ain't no examples here so I'm not sure what the jokes you're referring to are. But, as ever, let's separate 'dislike the show' from 'made in an evil way'.
     
  3. betelgeuse

    betelgeuse Catering Officer

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    This is a rather more overly lengthy response to the points Bedfordfalls makes lol;

    1. I thought Pete; Part II wasn’t as bad as Pete; Part I, and it had some interesting sci-fi concepts…plus the whole recap want as bad as Back in the Red; Part 3 (-I think it is) where Hollister does about 10 mins of recap (that may be an exaggeration) and makes a silly joke about being a donut boy or something lol…but a recap is something that some tv shows have taken on these days.

    2. I’ve never watched Jaspar Carrot either, so you may or may not be right, however tenuous you mean…but if you’re in Paul Alexander’s shoes and you feel you have written the odd brilliant gag for Jasper Carrot shows, then you get a chance to do Red Dwarf, then you’d be very tempted to transpose and transplant those jokes into the context of Red Dwarf, wherein characters and the sci-fi nature probably transform the jokes beyond much recognition anyway…and Naylor does reuse motifs and so on that Grant and Naylor used in early series..and then before that in radio sketches…each time they build on them and make them better. And of course in each case we should differ between rehashing gags, or reusing motifs… or recycling gags from other shows.

    …I personally can’t stand when another comedy series reuses a joke from another…I’ve seen similar jokes in Spaced and Mighty Boosh…then I’ve seen similar jokes in Mighty Boosh and Flight of the Conchords (for examples)…then the other night I was watching a comedy sitcom and they did a joke about the flintstones and fancying betty!

    3. Are you denouncing the use of repetition here (just to be clear)? The use of the salute or such repetitons e.g. the time wand used on Hollister, are the funniest use of this repetition in series VIII for me…it’s the kind of Graham Linehan thing that he does to perfect effect in shows like Black Books or IT Crowd…..there are other cases in series VIII that I cant remember off-hand of repetition that didn’t work (for me), but like they say in the documentary of the series on the DVD set, there was the audience there again, so using repetition can be tempting to use because the audience initially laughs, then the actor can choose to continue the repetition until there are no laughs and the audience starts laughing again because of the absurdity of how long the repetition has gone on for…….. phew!

    4. I have to admit I didn’t find Hollisters’ whole ‘have you any idea’ speech funny and I found it abit cringeworthy…it was funny for the first half minute lol but when you add lines coming from them such as- Hollister; “and do you have any idea…blah blah.” Lister; “he didn’t have a ‘diorhea attack did he?!’”- its just abit erm..'try-hard' and weird dialogue. Plus this kind of indulgent joke extention differs to the action of repetition which I cite above.

    5....see above response to 4.

    6. lol well I think on series VIII they came up with some good interesting mini-sketches and made ideas as they went along or on the way to work so they could then film them and hope to slot them in…on the commentary they mention that the whole ‘have a nice period’ and ‘archie the penis’ gags were meant for different episodes – so abit of cut and pasting went on in the edit…plus I think these sketches are decent, they add a ‘feminine humour’ I guess…

    in the commentary at the point of this joke I remember chloe annett suddenly screaming when the joke came about in excitement and she screamed alittle too loud and Norman told her to settle down lol

    anyway…I’d gleen from that process that its always best to have your scripts and direction plotted out and subsequent rewrites done before filming (incl. stroyboards and such), therefore such cutting and pasting doesn’t have to go on, and if you come up with the odd gag in rehearsals prior to shows you can always film it and slot it in where applicable rather than crowbarring it in to the odd episode.

    7. lol the dinosaur thing; well, I guess like in the last point that I make, they must have been constrained by budget and so the FX guy (Chris Veale or whatever his name was) said, ‘well we can do a CG dinosaur quite easily as I’ve just got the relevant software’ so they added the dinosaur…I also personally think;
    A) I would, as aforementioned, never make a series like that leaving stuff to last minute or crowbarring ideas in, especially with a lot of budgetary or time/schedule restrictions +
    B) I personally think Naylor felt the pressure as the lead showrunner on both seasons VII and VIII you can see that in the fact that in series VII he actually did expand the RD universe and add innovative features such as filmic lighting and take away the audience or laughter track…what doesn’t sit well with me is the fact that Naylor always says that on series VII he took ‘too much advice from others…whereas he reverts back to these aspects in BTE…I think for series VIII the pressure and maybe budget got to him abit and he wanted to play it safe and maybe try and recapture the cult feel of the early series..therefore rehashed motifs, settings etc…when offered such a cost-effective element as a CG dinosaur he probably thought it would bring back the feel of previous Red Dwarf series, the way the dinosaur was used and shot reminds me alot of the Polymorph from series III, (though I’m well aware they are both different as well).
     
  4. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I've seen many complaints about the dinosaur in Pete. I'd like to say though, I liked it. Don't get me wrong, Pete overall is a so-so episode and some of the repetitive stuff got on my nerves a bit, but... well.... I like dinosaurs. And I liked the time-wand gag that brought her* about too. It was very much in the Red Dwarf tradition of taking certain theories and scientific ideas and exaggerating them to comedic extent.

    Besides I was starting to miss a good monster in series VIII.

    As for laying a fertile egg without a mate... I assumed that there might have been more than one sparrow and Pete got lucky at one point. Before getting turned into a T-rex I mean.

    *I actually wrote 'him' but I realise that with the egg... well.. Pete's got to be a Petricia**, rather than a Peter right? Not that Bird-man knew. It's difficult to tell with little birdies...

    **I know the name is actually spelt 'Patricia' but it seems the closest female name to fit with Pete. Petrella? Heh.
     
  5. betelgeuse

    betelgeuse Catering Officer

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    me too actually, some fellow fans actually criticise the mid series especially V for being quote 'a monster a minute'...but I like that sort of manic quirkiness with the dwarf crew in peril.
     
  6. ch

    ch Catering Officer

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    Funny. Petra is quite a common Dutch name.
     
  7. Ant the Dragon

    Ant the Dragon Flight Co-Ordinator

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    What a boring read
     

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