How depressing it is...

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Seymour_Clufley, Mar 24, 2015.

  1. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    Dr Who?!? Why not discuss it in the proper thread? :x
     
  2. harry_swagger

    harry_swagger Second Technician

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    Where is the dr.who thread? :?::?::?::?:
     
  3. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    I was assuming here that solaris was referring to a Red Dwarf Reboot.
     
  4. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    Oh dear! A horrible idea!
     
  5. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    As you can see from my previous post, I'm in full agreement.
     
  6. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    At some point there must be a fair chance of this happening I guess. It`s already happened with the likes of Reggie Perrin and Yes, Minister after all.

    For the TV, I can`t really see it being a good idea. The main problems since Series VII have been with the writing imo and changing the cast wouldn`t help that.

    If it were to be a movie then that might make more sense. They have a fully written script already and we all know that they could have received funding if they`d gone down this route a decade ago. If the script is good enough then there are certainly enough fine actors out there to make it work.
     
  7. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    With regards to Rob and Doug writing together again…

    I agree that it would be great to see as their split did result in a nosedive in quality. Partly because there was no longer any quality control imo. Doug has complained many times that Rob made rules and said, `You can`t do that` or `We can think of something better`. But in their solo writing this was seemingly absent. Some very good ideas from both of them but also some dross.

    I can`t really see a reunion though. Many bands do get back together but that is because they know that they can make a lot more money together than alone. That isn`t the case with Dwarf. I don`t think a new series would be more likely with Rob on board and I am sure that Doug is happy to be writing and directing alone. And I am sure that Rob is quite happy to be picking up money for things like Back to Earth and Series X without lifting a finger.
     
  8. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    They can't even get a new series made. RD isn't popular enough for anyone to take a chance on rebooting it with a new cast. Shows like Reggie Perrin & Yes Minister had a more mainstream appeal & were fondly remembered by the public at large. Things RD does not have!
     
  9. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I think RD is fondly remembered by a lot of people.
     
  10. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    Obviously I don't agree with you on RDX, but it's entirely your prerogative to hold the opinion you do. However, just to pick up on one thing...

    ... surely "wild retconning" is exactly something that should be expected from a Red Dwarf "return to form", given its long and storied history of doing so? ;-)
     
  11. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    OK. But I never said it wasn't...:?
     
  12. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    There could be many reasons why a new series hasn`t been made yet.

    And I`m sure there were many times in the past that things like Reggie Perrin, Yes, Minister and Dads Army would not have been brought back.

    I can completely imagine a time in the future when some unimaginative TV boss thinks that bringing back Red Dwarf could be a good idea with a new cast. Whether Doug (or whoever controls the show at the time) would agree is another matter.
     
  13. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Stop being a pedantic twonk sim; you know what I meant :roll:
     
  14. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    The only examples I can think of off hand are the retcon of Lister's relationship with Kochanski apparently in order to bring it more in line with the books around Series IV (Fairly minor importance really as Kochanski had barely been mentioned since Series I), Ouroborous and Hollister's Dennis the Donut Boy revelation in Series VIII (Not really that significant as he was only really a supporting character and wasn't in the vast majority of the rest of Red Dwarf), there are other inconsistencies (Such as in the crew size of Red Dwarf) but nothing that I think is an actual retcon, whereas in RDX we had two pretty significant changes to the Rimmer's family backstory in Trojan and The Beginning.

    I'm not sure that's really enough to be regarded as "Wild retconning" personally, but it is something that I've mentioned that I'd rather not see *if* we get RDXI, I'd prefer to have the script work with the character's established background rather than keep on rewriting it for a surprise reveal.
     
  15. SallyWilson

    SallyWilson Skutter

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    I was a bit surprised at Seymour's extreme reaction to RDX - most longish series will have a "peak" time and I think it's a bit much to expect a brilliant show like RD to stay in top form indefinitely. It's all relative - I wasn't all that enthused by VII and VIII so was glad to see what I thought was a move in the right direction with IX and X. Actually really liked X.

    The retconning I would have disliked but as Simon knows (hi Simon!) I think we're following a different bunch of Dwarfers than the original ones anyway.

    It's a bit hard on poor old Doug to keep blaming him for the changes from the good old days - we'll never know how Rob would have fared on his own. Also, how pointless is it to keep moaning about how they should get back together, just to suit us. They're doing what suits them, and why not?
     
  16. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    True, but when the quality dips so much one has to wonder why they are continuing to do it. I don't think Rob & Doug will get back together, which is a shame as judging by their TV output as individuals they are better together.
     
  17. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I'm surprised that anyone would feel the quality dropped during series 6, I thought that was generally agreed among most fans to be among the best. Although there will of course always be people who don't like popular series' for whatever reason (personal taste being an obvious one).

    As for series X, there seems to have been a mixed response, although from what I can gather more people enjoyed it and were happy with the overall quality. I personally loved it. The two Lister's scene in 'Fathers and Sons' is among my favourite scenes of all time. And 'The Beginning' is now one of my all time favourite RD eps. I actually love what Doug did in regards to the story of Rimmers background. For me everything still fits and interconnects. Although I do think it was a bold move that was bound to annoy a certain portion of long-term fans. But for me personally is was a wonderfully radical and brave decision.

    In all honesty I think it can be easy to look back at older shows with rose tinted glasses. Also, people change. We all change. A lot. We may not notice it so much ourselves but we do. And with those changes sometimes our personal tastes change somewhat too. While nostalgia can help us maintain the enjoyment of what went before. I'm not saying that's definitely the case here, and it can of course potentially go the other way too. That is, that some fans *may* accept any level of quality so long as they get to see their favourite characters and show back on the air.

    But in the case of RDX I honestly think that's less likely because the quality, in my personal view, was generally reasonably high. I actually prefer series 10 to series 4, 7 and 8. And yes my mentioning of series 4 there may raise some eyebrows, but again we all have slightly differing tastes. There will always be a certain degree of subjectivity involved here. There can be no scientific consensus on this, because different people may judge episodes and series' on different merits and elements. E.g. Is 'Backwards' a good episode because many but not all of us think it's generally quite a fun and enjoyable ep? Or should it be considered a bad episode because of the continuity errors or some other issues some individual hard-core fans may have with it?

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think RDX was perfect by any means. I do see various flaws and there are a few bits that make me cringe a bit. But for me that's also the case for most other RD series'.

    Overall I felt series X was a great success. If they knock out another series of that quality I would be more than satisfied.

    Oh and I think to assume the show would've been exactly what one wants it to be if Rob were to return is rather presumption tbh. I agree however that it would be nice to see them writing together again, but at this point it's not something that personally concerns me either way really.
     
  18. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    Hi Sal, good to see you venturing out from the Xpress Lift :-D
     
  19. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    for me we got little explanations into rimmers mind, mother, father and backstory through out 8 series which are alot more clever and subtle then what we got in the beginning which really did feel like doug was trying to explain and spell out why rimmer is a loser for a possible series final

    and i know people have said thats not what doug was trying to say with it but there was certainly enough jokes making it sound like that was the case and in a way it answered a big question to then open alot of small questions

    well now doug is writing solo he seems to feel the need to explain things that don't need explaining, one thats quite small but bothers me a tiny bit is in trojan with the simulant which is obviously mean't to explain the point simulants turned against humans but it all seems 3 million years to early to get into that sorta thing just to give the audience an explanation

    and i know you could say well rose tinted glasses making it hard to accept anything new but its more a case of we had over 6 seasons of stand alone storys that didn't need big reveals and now its 20 years later on its 10th season, 2 decades of fandom and doug decides its time to make big reveals to shock the fans which seems abit unnecessary and late to do that now

    reminds me of star trek: enterprise which was the last series of a franchise that had gone on for decades and was a prequel that tried to explain things and in the end probably ended up sticking more plotholes in continuity thinking it was fan service
     
  20. You can almost like Lister, he's really gross but can sometimes be quite brave, but then just when you start to really like him, he wrecks Rimmer's camphor wood chest or uses the escape pod lever as a bottle opener.
     

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