How did the crew travel in time in Tikka To Ride?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Elwood, Apr 15, 2009.

  1. Elwood

    Elwood First Technician

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    As the end of series six had shown, the time drive can mvoe them to any time period, but they won't move position. Hence vintage deep space.
    So how was it in Tikka To Ride the time drive now moved them onto earth in the past?
     
  2. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    Well it was probably just another instance of Red Dwarf's poor continuity.

    However, you could argue that they managed to modify the time drive sometime between series 6 and 7. It was just never mentioned onscreen.
     
  3. GTaDave

    GTaDave Catering Officer

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    Lol I think you would need to head into an unreality pocket for that answer, That baffeled me to.
     
  4. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    We know that a lot of odd stuff happend when the Boyz from the Dwarf from 15 years in the future killed their younger selves, i.e. Starbug getting a few cosmetic chages to its interior and it's size being expanded by something like 200%. As Lister put it, reality was unstable and both dimensions had merged in order to cope with the paradox.
    Perhaps this caused some changes outside of Starbug as well - i.e. the Time Drive not only looks different but is also a Time AND Space Drive.

    You can also use this excuse for why Kochanski looks like Chloe Annett instead of Claire Grogan.
     
  5. Daniel

    Daniel Console Officer

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    Or maybe the time drive was used in conjuction with the matter paddle, which could have been rebuilt from the triplicator it was turned in to in series 5. The two combined solves the problem
     
  6. Tex_Rimmer

    Tex_Rimmer First Technician

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    The matter paddle would have been a good way to explain it, and would only have taken one line of dialogue to fix the problem. Pity they didn't think of that.

    For that matter, how come they never used the matter padddle to get back to earth? And how come they didn't go back home to their own times at the end of Tikka to Ride, and stay there? This is a big problem in Sci-Fi in general. They introduce devices which would totally change things, just for the sake of a good story, and then either forget about them, or else find some contrived way to destroy them (and the knowledge of how to create them) in the end.
     
  7. Tex_Rimmer

    Tex_Rimmer First Technician

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    You can also use this excuse for why Kochanski looks like Chloe Annett instead of Claire Grogan.

    I could if I understood it, but it doesn't seem to really say anything specific other than "Our Continuity Department has a license to take a permanent holiday". Certainly nothing in that explanation explains why the Dwarfers blowing up their past selves should change Kochanski's appearance in another dimension.
     
  8. Elwood

    Elwood First Technician

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    I've no idea why the matter paddle was never used to reach earth, but as for using the time device to reach earth, well it was pretty obvious. They never used it in fear of becoming the stuck up versions of themselves they fought in series 6.

    They only used it this one time as Lister changed Krytens heads!
     
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  9. Keir_FTGL_Shiels

    Keir_FTGL_Shiels Catering Officer

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    The future crew in out of time had adapted the Time Drive to move through space as well. Hence they were able to travel to dine with the Hitlers etc.

    As explained at the start of VII, factors from both timestream dimensions fused to cope with the paradox.

    or, alternatively, Ed Bye's explanation is my preferred one:

    "We made the Time Drive up. It's actually made of plastic."
     
  10. mrtrebus

    mrtrebus Second Technician

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    This always bugged me. Especially with the Tikka To Ride thing, it was just lazy writing, the first sign of the massive decline in quality that began with series 7 :crying:
     
  11. Tex_Rimmer

    Tex_Rimmer First Technician

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    I've no idea why the matter paddle was never used to reach earth, but as for using the time device to reach earth, well it was pretty obvious. They never used it in fear of becoming the stuck up versions of themselves they fought in series 6.

    That's what they said, but I don't quite buy it. What's wrong with going home to the day after the radiation accident, destroying the time drive, and staying there? That makes a lot more sense than going back for curry and then returning to Starbug afterwards.

    For that matter, they could easily have used the time drive to recover Red Dwarf. Simply travel in Starbug to go to any place where Red Dwarf has been at any point when you were tracking it, then go back in time to a time when it was there. Then destroy the drive. That's a heckuva lot safer than going back in time to earth, but they didn't think of that either. The story is great, but the implications of the time drive aren't well thought out.

    In Out of Time they could conceivably have done the same thing, but there was simply no time to do it. Their future selves turned up almost immediately after they acquired the drive.
     
  12. Tex_Rimmer

    Tex_Rimmer First Technician

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    or, alternatively, Ed Bye's explanation is my preferred one:

    "We made the Time Drive up. It's actually made of plastic."


    All fiction is fiction, so that's not really an excuse for bad writing. In the 60's you could get away with that kind of thing. Have all the episodes of a show completely independent of each other with no need to tie them together properly, because the audience is supposed to be too stupid to notice. But unfortunately they do, even ones that aren't geeks.

    I'm not a big fan of Seinfeld, but a friend of mine who is has often told me how he resolved to keep a close watch on their continuity. If somebody is said not to have an Uncle in one episode, then they would NOT give him one in a future episode. If a guest star is played by one person in one episode, then they'd either have the same actor play him next time, or he wouldn't come back, period.

    Even with fantasy, you have to have believable characters, and if you don't, the audience won't buy it. Postulate a guy who can make people disappear by pointing at them with his little finger. Okay, an audience will buy that. But have the guy get killed because he, for no particular reason, didn't bother using this power to save himself at a critical moment, when he easily could have, then no, they won't buy that. They'll say "That's dumb" and watch something else next week.

    Now Minor Trivia, like a major plot element from one episode contradicting a throwaway line from a much earlier one (like Legion contradicting the fleeting reference to Lister's appendectomy in Thanks For the Memory, you can maybe get away with that. But major plot holes, in the space of just one episode, people notice and they care, if they care about your show at all (and you want them to care about your show at all.)

    So yeah, if you make up a thing like the Time Drive, and change your own rules for how it works willy-nilly, or set it up as something that could easily get them back to Earth, but don't bother using it for that, then yeah, people will notice. Not just geeks, either. The audience isn't as dumb as you think.

    (And I do like Tikka to Ride, despite the problems.)
     
  13. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    I remember them saying the Matter Paddle had a range limit, so perhaps it was unfeasible to get to Earth. Or perhaps it didn't have a large enough supply of power for sustained leapfrogging from planet-to-planet.

    Plus, they just about detected Waxworld, and even then they couldn't actually tell whether or not it had anything worth breathing in its atmosphere or if it was suitable for sustaining human life. Say, they kept sending Kryten and/or Rimmer on as scouts. What happens if they encounter trouble and aren't able to send the matter paddle back. This would leave Lister and Cat stranded on the previous planet they'd been on. What if that planet offered little to no supplies for food, warmth and protection from the elements? Then they'd be galloping up diahorhea drive without a saddle.
     
  14. SmegOnYourFace

    SmegOnYourFace Third Technician

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    In the same vein - how the hell did they just 'make' a mirror universe machine in a few minutes at the end of series 8? Was it always that easy to do??? If so, why didn't Kryten do it during series 3-5??? I wish they'd scrapped Pete part 1 and 2 and done a two or three parter to Only the Good as it feels so rushed and underdeveloped - it could have been a great episode, espeically the idea that Rimmer makes his way from second lowest rank to Captain...
     
  15. Stalfos

    Stalfos Third Technician

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    Ever heard of retcon?
     
  16. Tex_Rimmer

    Tex_Rimmer First Technician

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    I remember them saying the Matter Paddle had a range limit, so perhaps it was unfeasible to get to Earth. Or perhaps it didn't have a large enough supply of power for sustained leapfrogging from planet-to-planet.

    I think they did say that, but they also said that it would take several billion years for Starbug to get to Waxworld, which makes it sound a lot farther away than Earth. (Of course, that problem could be fixed with the stroke of a pen. Change "billion" to "thousand").

    I can buy the Time Drive suddenly being able to transport you through space. All that requires is adding one line of dialogue about combining it with the matter paddle (or something like that). Not a huge deal. But then NOT using it to recover Red Dwarf or get back to Earth permanently is a lot harder to swallow. For that matter, the whole bit about following Red Dwarf is dropped without explanation until Nanarchy when they explain that they had lost its trail somewhere or other (When was that exactly? Through most of Series 7, I had no idea what they were doing. Were they still trying to find Red Dwarf? Had they given up on that? Were they going somewhere? Or what?). In Series 6, their limited supplies seemed to be a big issue, but that's virtually forgotten in 7 also. (Though maybe the Time Drive had something to do with resolving that.)


    If the paddle didn't have the range to get to earth in Meltdown, I'd agree with your explanation of why they wouldn't use it to try to leapfrog to Earth. And I wouldn't even have a problem if it didn't have the range in Meltdown, but did have the range in Tikka. These are fantasy contraptions, they can work however you want. Just make it consistent, explain changes reasonably, and have the characters act believably.

    People do appreciate good continuity. Like, where did that Triplicator suddenly come from? It helps the story a lot to have that one line explaining that they made it from technology in the matter paddle. The story flows better if it makes internal sense.
     
  17. Tex_Rimmer

    Tex_Rimmer First Technician

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    Ever heard of retcon?

    Isn't that a convention in Esher? I think I won the costume contest at Retcon IV.
     
  18. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    Actually it could detect suitable planets. The idea of sending Kryten and Rimmer first was because they hadn't used the matter-paddle to take them so far at that point.

    I had an idea that the matter-paddle was pretty much finished after using it to make the triplicator.

    Interestingly, Lister in BtE states that they couldn't use it because it was back on Red Dwarf... which suggests I might be wrong there.

    As for the Time Drive, Ed Bye gave another explanation as to why the time-drive could now travel through space as well as time.
    Kryten didn't know how to use it properly in series 6. Heh.

    I wish they had addressed it in the episode though. It need only be one line after all.
     
  19. Tex_Rimmer

    Tex_Rimmer First Technician

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    As for the Time Drive, Ed Bye gave another explanation as to why the time-drive could now travel through space as well as time.
    Kryten was didn't know how to use it properly in series 6. Heh.



    I'd buy that. ("Oh, I'm sorry Sir, I hadn't seen this other row of buttons on the bottom.") That's funny and in the spirit of the show (and is certainly no sillier than mistaking grit for Black Holes). It's vaguely reminiscent of Lister's explanation of the Lolita book in the Smeg-Ups. (I was holding the book upside down.) If you can clear up a plot hole, AND wring a laugh out of it at the same time, do it.
     
  20. david1

    david1 Third Technician

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    I agree that inconsistencies are bad news for fans.
    it makes the whole thing less than what it could have been, but it is primarily a comedy show i suppose

    the explanation at the beginning of 7 was terrible - the first sign back in '97 that things were gonna be going downhill



    "For my cooking-duties I am programmed to be proficient in all known offworld eating techniques, including Jovian boogle-hoops, and the often-lethal mercurian boomerang-spoon!"
     

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