Illegal Downloads

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by tippy922, Apr 11, 2009.

  1. tippy922

    tippy922 Third Technician

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    I have a friend who indicated that this shall be available via bittorrent soon. Besides the fact I HATE that program....isn't that illegal and shouldn't we guard against it? If we see it happening who do we contact? Because I would rather wait patiently than break international copyright laws. I want to see a clear picture and not some crap after all the work that went into this by "The Powers That Know Better Than I". After all, I own, LEGALLY, all the DVDs. I'm not about to start a life of crap-view or ANY-OTHER view piracy now.
    PIRACY SUCKS. Too much hard work went into this from MANY different angles.
    PLEASE let us know what to do!

    Thanks.:shock:
     
  2. robjungle

    robjungle Third Technician

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    As I posted in the other thread...

    What planet do some of you live on? First of all, (in the UK anyway), there´s nothing criminal whatsoever about downloading Red Dwarf or any other TV program, film, computer game or application. "They" just say there is in the occasional newspaper article or "news" piece to try and stop people doing it. America´s a different story, but then as any European who´s ever been to the US knows, it really isn´t the land of the free, more the land of the poorly educated and enslaved!

    Secondly, there´s nothing morally wrong with downloading stuff either! Although I don´t agree with the chumps who seem to think downloading a film means it will be of poor quality (I´ve got loads of films in 1080 HD on my computer, just cos you don´t know how to do something doesn´t mean it can´t be done!), nothing beats an original. I´ve been buying DVDs since I was a kid, I´ve got hundreds if not thousands. But why would I buy a DVD that I might not like?! That´s ridiculous! The Anti-Piracy advert on DVDs (which incidentally, only people who have paid for a genuine DVD have to sit through, unlike "pirates"), screams, "You wouldn´t steal a car!"...no, but I wouldn´t buy a car that I hadn´t seen, driven and maybe even had checked out by a mechanic. Why should digital media be any different? With music it isn´t. Even if you don´t download music for free, you hear it on the Radio or MTV before buying it. No one walks into HMV and picks a CD out at random.

    Finally, as a Heroin enthusiast, jmc2000 I can categorically inform you that downloading Red Dwarf is nothing like drugs.

    P.S. I was a little bit disappointed with tonight’s episode. It should have had a laughter track and it didn´t seem like they explained how they got from the last episode of RD8 to this...although I did miss a couple of minutes of the beginning.

    P.P.S. If you aren´t a member of a proper torrent site you can download Episode 1 from Mininova.org

    http://www.mininova.org/search/?search=red+dwarf&cat=0
     
  3. tippy922

    tippy922 Third Technician

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    Dude. Am I crazy or are you a thief?
     
  4. bladze

    bladze Skutter

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    haha, that was a great rant. well said!!! i totally agree with you. i own all the red dwarf DVD's, but i want to watch it on my laptop, when im away, without having to take the nice, well kept DVD's with me. so rather than ripping them onto my laptop, i download them.
     
  5. robjungle

    robjungle Third Technician

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    I´m certainly not a thief, but I doubt you´re crazy, probably just ill-educated. I assure you it´s perfectly legal to download anything (besides certain detestable forms of pornography obviously) in the UK. If not the police would have kicked in my front door long ago. If you don´t believe me, report me. You could try the MPAA or just the British police. They´ll laugh at you, but I´m guessing you´re probably used to that.:lol:

    Just out of curiosity, why do you think it´s your responsibility to "do something" about other people downloading stuff anyway?

    P.S. I´ve downloaded the first episode and the quality is fine. I´ll reserve judgement on whether to buy it once I´ve seen the second and third parts.

    Alastair: Exactly! And why shouldn´t you?
     
  6. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    Um what? How do you work that one out? Do you also argue 'I've never been caught speeding so speeding is legal'?
     
  7. sickling_farion

    sickling_farion Skutter

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    Oh my, this has gotten rather intense, I think Rob is saying that we are free to download as the law is not strictly a straight line, there are no obvious penalties for downloading. I always thought it was the owning that got you into hot water, hence why people like napstar, joox, stage 6, pirate bay, have all fallen into trouble with the copyright protection, but they seem to get out of it because they stream from another party.

    However, streaming is also a form of downloading, and we do that on 99% of websites now, and there is no copyright protection for that. I would say that copyright and downloading is over rated, and they would prefer that you do not do it because somebody is loosing money, and they link certain issues together, like the afore mention “other” type of downloads. I think police like control, but if you go to a site like mini- nova, and you download a torrent, you are doing so of your own free will and Keith you are not going to make any difference by shopping somebody.

    Simon, I think what Rob was implying of test driving films was merely and explanation of rights and freedom, obviously, speeding is illegal.
     
  8. SimonM

    SimonM Skutter

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    Keith, I don't see what the problem is or why you seem to think you have been appointed as the moral guardian of the internet. I didn't watch BTE on Dave last night as I was watching something else, so I recorded it on SKY+. Do you think that is illegal? I can now watch it at my convenience any time I like. Now what is wrong with me transfering it from my SKY+ box to my PC to archive it. Nothing is wrong with that so what is wrong with downloading it? You really should get a life Kieth.
     
  9. mark0079

    mark0079 Skutter

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    http://www.mininova.org/tor/2473948

    the link to download
     
  10. dapperdan

    dapperdan Skutter

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    Agreed, there's a lot of Rimmers lurking around these boards. It's sunny today - get outside.

    Personally I choose not to wait weeks, months or even years to see Battlestar Galactica, Terminator, Lost, Heroes or The Wire - and I get the extra benefit of a high definition version without adverts, and without Mr Murdoch getting a penny from me. I downloaded BTE this morning (a social life - look it up - prevented a viewing last night).

     
  11. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    I think you will find downloading is not legal. It may not be criminal (Rob seems to be being a bit pedantic there) but it certainly isn't legal. Copyright law and the like. Of course it depends how much you do that is the problem. People who download films and tv shows (apart from legitimate sources) constantly are more likely to get into trouble than people who download the odd song now and again.

    Somehow I think you will find there is copyright protection. Most of the streaming sites work to try and stop people downloading the song rather than streaming it as it is easier than taking them to court.

    'Test driving' films is still illegal. Otherwise there wouldn't be places like blockbuster. OK I agree there is a side to say that you want to know what you are getting but that is why you use review sites. What do you do when you get a new washing machine? Do you nick one, test it out and then return it or buy it? Nope you read the reviews and buy the one that seems best for your needs. With films you read the reviews and either rent it if it might be good but you aren't sure, or you take a chance and buy it.
     
  12. Misfit

    Misfit Skutter

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    I have in the past owned all the Red Dwarf episodes on VHS, now I own them all on DVD and I am sure that one day I'll end up owning them on Bluray or Goldbeam or whatever comes next. Seeing as how I live in Aisa these days and don't get Dave I can't watch BTE on TV as there is a very good chance it won't be on here at all. A few years ago Red Dwarf was on the channels here at around 2am because it really doesn't match the local sense of humour.

    I am buying the BTE DVD when its out, but what could possibly be wrong with me downloading it now and buying it later? Who am I hurting in this situation? They get a sale, I don't have to wait ages for a disc version to come out.

    Everyone wins.
     
  13. Harper

    Harper Skutter

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    I'm having a bit trouble not to start a rant about legal/illegal downloads.

    I'm a huge fan of Red Dwarf and therefor I'm very gratefull I'm able to download the episode, thanks to people to put time, effort and money into uploading the episode free of charge. If they weren't doing this, god knows when I finally would be able to see it.

    I understand the position of the studio's, they also put in al lot of time and money in making the show and deserve to make money of it and when the show is finally available to me I won't hesitate to buy it to make my collection complete. (Even tough I just watched it online).

    Just a moment ago, I noticed an iTunes download link for season 1 on the website, always fun to have a digital copy for on the iPod for on the road, airplane or something, but guess what... "This product is not available in your local iTunes store". Not only have i bought the series as they came available, but I was even prepared to pay for a second copy.

    The age where a movie or serie had to travel weeks on a ship to the other countries has long gone. And when you make a series available on a media like iTunes, it is no more effort to make it available worldwide at once.

    /Rommie

    PS. I hope the studio is reading this aswell, although I doubt it would suddenly wake them up.
     
  14. davedwarf

    davedwarf Skutter

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    There's nothing illegal about downloading a TV rip as there was no point where I was supposed to hand over money to watch that episode last night. DVD rips are another matter but you are allowed to download them as a matter of backing up the discs that you own.

    I find it really hard to fathom when I see somebody get a bee in their bonnet over protecting multi-millionaires. You do know that 95% of all anti-piracy propaganda comes from studios and not artists? I.E. Radiohead or the creators of South Park.

    It's a digital age and until the studios figure out a way to squeeze the internet dry, they'll keep complaining.
     
  15. DavidS

    DavidS Third Technician

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    the rimmers in the room go round and round:arrow:, round and round:arrow:, round and round:arrow:, the rimmers in the room go round and round:arrow:, all day long:roll:
     
  16. maverickuw

    maverickuw Skutter

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    I think what you're seeing here is a disconnect between many types of people.

    For example, in America in the era of Napster, the RIAA was caught off guard (they still are in many regards). The era of the MP3 came all too quickly for them. One of the principle arguments was that cd sales were down because of Napster, and that college students were the biggest abusers of this. However, if you looked at the data, music stores within a mile of college campuses in America had their music purchases double. Many college students were using the ability to download music almost as a sampler. If they liked the CD they downloaded, they'd buy it. As it stands, the RIAA still cries about lost CD sales, while simply ignoring the figures of the billions of songs sold by Apple over iTunes.

    During this era, and even today, some bands figured things out. For example, The Offspring welcomed people downloading their CDs through Napster, and even sold Napster-themed items on the band website. Many indie bands still do this to a point today. The money for music is not made off of CD sales, or even MP3 sales. The real money in the music industry is based off of concerts. If you're a band, which do you care more about: the extra little bit of money you'd make off of a download of a song, or the extra fan who may end up paying to see one of your concerts and likely still buy your CD anyway?

    Another source of the argument? If they're going to download it and not buy it, they likely were never going to buy it in the first place. At least you have one more person listening to it-- which can of course help the idea of word of mouth.

    Now let's look at how this applies to Red Dwarf:

    First, this is more of a tribute special, that is airing in one country only, on a channel that has limited availability in that country if I understand things right. 90%+ of the people downloading it are probably not from the UK, which means who knows when they might see it.

    Yes, DVD's are scheduled for June, but is that a worldwide release date, or just a UK only release (The Anniversary Edition of Red Dwarf that has all 8 series in one package has not been released outside of Region 2 (The US is Region 1)). The plain and simple fact is that Dave is wanting people to see this show. The more people that see the specials, the better. I'm sure they knew this would be on the internet in no time (hence why they didn't record in front of a live audience, they didn't even want the plot escaping to the internet). 2.34 million people in the UK watched Part 1 of BTE. 2nd in it's timeslot, and the best for a digital television channel ever. Now, if another million people download it and watch it, that's even better. And since Dave is going all out on this, I really don't see them scrimping in extra features on the DVD release. So, let's say half the people who see the show are going to buy the DVDs when they come out. Dave could have 1.17 million DVD sales, or they could have 1.67 million DVD sales. Which do you think they'd prefer?

    The other thing to consider about downloading the TV show. It's on a free channel is it not?

    In the end, I think there's some realizations that are sometimes lost on people who argue against these things. Theoretically (at least according to how US law is interpreted), if you record a TV show or a movie to a VHS tape or a recordable DVD, you can only watch it once. If you keep it for longer, you're violating copyright law. Have a CD full of music you like? If you want to even listen to it on your computer, according to the music industry, you have to buy another copy of the CD (a digital copy). Even loaning a CD or a movie to a friend can be interpreted as a violation of copyright laws...
     
  17. Mike_Scrase_BSC

    Mike_Scrase_BSC Skutter

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    Urm... I'm not sure if they still exsist, but you could give it a try anyway; Google the "Federation Against Copyright Theft", and contact them with any information you have. Try and get information on WHERE these people are downloading from, because if you cut off the source it'll stop a lot more downloading than if you just report one random person who's doing it.
     
  18. richisawesome

    richisawesome Second Technician

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    Cut off the source of a torrent? Are you serious?

    A torrent works as so - person A uploads a link to the file to a tracker, such as The Pirate Bay or Mininova. Bear in mind that the content itself is not uploaded to the website - it's still on the user's computer (which protects the websites - they do not offer pirated content themselves, their users do from their own computers).

    Soon enough, person B downloads that file from person A. Person C comes along now, but this time he downloads half the file from Person A, and half from person B. Person D then downloads part from Person A, another part from person B and the rest from Person C. This continues until you have potentially thousands of people all sharing the same file, with each piece coming from a different user (called a seed). Among other things, it's why torrent downloads of popular films, music and TV shows are so ridiculously fast.

    If one person gets cut off, it wont make a difference at all because the file is still coming from the thousand other people who have already got the file. If the tracker is deleted from say, the pirate bay (which would never happen), then someone will simply re-upload it - which takes a matter of seconds. No matter what the record industry or the film industry try to do, they cannot get rid of torrents. The technology (which is a near-perfect system) is completely 100% legal, even if it's used to share copyrighted material and as such it's incredibly difficult to fight against the people sharing the content. How on earth can you sue thousands of people? You can't.

    Fighting against torrents is a losing battle, simply because of these reasons stated.
     
  19. Mike_Scrase_BSC

    Mike_Scrase_BSC Skutter

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    Hmmm... well, I suppose you have a point there, but sueing a few of the culprits might discourage the others...

    I don't really know how these torrent things work, since I don't involve myself with them.

    Either way, it sucks they can get away with it on technicalities.
     
  20. richisawesome

    richisawesome Second Technician

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    That's exactly what the record industry has been doing since the start. Suing random downloaders for thousands of dollars including classic moments such as when the RIAA sued a 12 year old girl $20,000 for downloading a britney spears song from limewire, and the moment when they filed court action against a certain woman for the same amount.

    That woman was a 92 year old pensioner. She had never used a computer in her life.

    Either way, what I'm trying to say is that the industry is reacting by using scare tactics. Sue enough people, and hopefully the public will get scared. Only they aren't - people are downloading more than ever.
     

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