Illegal Downloads

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by tippy922, Apr 11, 2009.

  1. maverickuw

    maverickuw Skutter

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    Not only that, but at least in America, they've been violating the law in order to uncover their evidence... pretty much everyone who's actually gone to court with them has won, and they're starting to stop the suing process since they realized that 1) Pissing your customers off is a bad thing, and 2) With all the laws they're breaking, they're actually risking losing the ability to protect their copyrights (some of the copyright laws in America, if not followed properly by the copyright holder, can cause the holder to lose rights to said copyrights).

    Again, this comes down to people really understanding the culture of downloading, not just saying, "It's illegal to download, let's turn them in."
     
  2. bendrago

    bendrago Skutter

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    Err, people, downloading copyrighted material without permission is illegal, no matter how you rationalize it, no matter how you put it in perspective, no matter how you defend it.

    People are trying to put a robin hood like spin to this issue but the fact still remains, it is illegal, full stop.

    Read EU laws ?
     
  3. slappyslack

    slappyslack Third Technician

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    OK THE MAIN BIT YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT HERE IS THE FACT IT IS ON TV, IF YOU CAN RECORD IT TO ANY KIND OF MEDIA(DVD,VIDEO, HARD DRIVE) THEN HOW IS DOWNLOADING ANY DIFFERENT??? FILMS GAMES AND SOFTWARE ARE COPYRIGHTED AND SO ON AND ARE ILLEGAL TO DOWNLOAD FROM UNPAID TORRENT SITES UNLESS THEY ARE PUT THERE BY THE OWNERS OR HAVE PERMISSION TO BE PUT THERE OR UNLESS YOU HAVE THE DVD AND D/L FOR BACKUP PURPOSES. SAYING THAT THOUGH THE POLICE CAN ONLY PROSECUTE IF THE COMPANY OWNING THE PRODUCT/MEDIA DECIDE TO PRESS CHARGES(MY MATES A POLICE MAN)

    NOW BACK TO THE RED DWARF DOWNLOADING

    ANY ONE WHO DOWNLOADS BTE THROUGH A TORRENT SITE AND THEN DOESNT BUY THE DVD WHEN IT COMES OUT WILL DIRECTLY BE KILLING RED DWARF AS THE DVD IS THEIR WAY OF GETTING REVENUE TO MAKE ANOTHER SEASON!!!

    SO IMO D/L ING IS NOT THE PROBLEM ITS THE PEOPLE THAT DONT BUY THE DVD AS THEY ALREADY D/L'D IT!
     
  4. BackInTheRed

    BackInTheRed Skutter

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    Why do most of the people defending the "downloading is bad" argument seem like ignorant, ill informed morons?

    I watched it legally on Dave but get your Dwarf on however I say, especially if you're a big fan in the U.S. Screw these people, especially the ones that haven't the slightest clue about downloading.

    If you don't know what you're banging on about and simply choosing to take the supposed moral high ground because you think it *must* be the correct way to think and it makes you feel better, **** off, you're wrong and a deeply stupid person.

    Cheers.
     
  5. maverickuw

    maverickuw Skutter

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    Oh thank you, thank you. You reminded me of the big argument I left out.

    YOU need to read EU laws, or UK laws or US laws.

    1) Criminal Copyright infringement laws cover only the mass distribution of media. For example, if you ever go to places like Hong Kong where you can buy movies currently in theaters on DVD for about a Pound, that's what's being targeted with criminal copyright infringement laws. Otherwise, instead of suing people, the Music industry would be getting people thrown in jail.

    2) There is no law anywhere that states that it is illegal to download a digital media file. Because well frankly, it's not. However, there are civil statutes that can be violated, however, not by downloading.

    2A) Sharing of digital media files is a civil infringement of copyright. There's a reason the RIAA (music industry trade group in the US) sues only those who are sharing files. This falls under distribution laws (similar to the above, but not considered to be the level of criminal copyright infringement). IT IS ILLEGAL TO DISTRIBUTE A COPYRIGHTED WORK WITHOUT THE OWNERS PERMISSION, NOT TO ACQUIRE IT.

    2B) This is primarily in the US, but the EU is currently in the process of adopting similar laws. The US DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) makes it a crime to circumvent copyright protection and to distribute copyrighted materials. What's meant by circumvention? DVDs are encrypted by nature (as are Blu-ray discs). If you use a program to rip the DVD to your computer for use on an iPod, you would be breaking these laws. Forget that you purchased the movie, and that you're using it for your own means only, you'd still be breaking the law. Purchasing a mod chip for a video game console because you want to play home made games on it is also a violation (Which is even more interesting because they're telling you that you can't change something you purchased...this is akin to purchasing a house but being told you cannot change the landscaping, the paint, the carpet and the like).

    I've read the laws in regards to this, and it's clear that you haven't. Have you also considered the simple fact that a majority of the people likely even downloading Back to Earth right now aren't from the European Union?
     
  6. davedwarf

    davedwarf Skutter

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    Maverickuw = Win

    Why do some people turn the news on and when it says someone did an illegal download, they immediately dismiss all downloads as illegal?
     
  7. THEBRIT

    THEBRIT Third Technician

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    Downloading copyrighted material is illegal fullstop! For the same reason pirate DVDs are illegal.
    Its like a drug dealer and an addict, both parties are responsible and on the wrong side of the law.

    Streaming however is not illegal. Aslong as yor not hosting it.
     
  8. richisawesome

    richisawesome Second Technician

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    Here's a quote from Robert Llewellyn's twitter page:

    What do you 'all downloading is bad!!' people have to say about that then, considering the cast think it's a compliment that it's available everywhere so quickly?
     
  9. THEBRIT

    THEBRIT Third Technician

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    The cast are happy because they get paid whatever happens, even if no one tuned in. Its the big wigs that pay the price which has a knock on affect. Downloaders are killing a new series.

    if this were a few years ago, I may have crashed a few torrent sites in protest. But im not going down that route again....probably.
     
  10. richisawesome

    richisawesome Second Technician

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    Lets see you try and take down The Pirate Bay then - something the RIAA/mediadefender have attempted before with a mass DDOS attack, and failed miserably.

    Anyway. As I said before, I'm completely neutral on this topic - but I do feel people are being quite naieve.
     
  11. THEBRIT

    THEBRIT Third Technician

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    It was an off hand comment, please dont make anything of it.
    There are alot of successful 'attacks' here and there. About 90% of limewire files are attatched with viruses and trackers. Most torrents are too nowerdays.
     
  12. connell

    connell First Technician

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    Because they are :lol:

    Downloading... everyone does it!
     
  13. davedwarf

    davedwarf Skutter

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    It really is mental when people say downloading is killing a new series, it just shows complete idiocy on their part!

    What is the primary reason a show gets commissioned? Demand. Without demand there are no ratings and without ratings there is no advertisement revenue. Take away the advertising and you take away the money which then funds the production of new shows.

    If everyone on the planet downloaded this Back to Earth 3 parter it would guarantee Naylor his choice of shows or a film.

    It's only for the fact that I don't receive Dave in my room and that they're on too early for me to bother going downstairs that I don't watch them as broadcast but I still count as someone who would watch it if it was scheduled more favorably or on a decent channel and that is data you could use to pitch the worth of a new series to a poor, desperate and starving bigwig who's had to sell his holiday home because of downloading.

    Or in reality, is able to show to advertisers that the show is predominantly watched by 18 - 30 year olds and be rewarded with higher revenues because of downloading.
     
  14. bendrago

    bendrago Skutter

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    Incase you didn't notice I did not make any moral judgement over downloading Back to earth,
    I just simply stated that it is illegal.

    I am a musician and have first hand experience how this works, simplified it goes like this :

    You create something (picture, music, movie ...) you gain the copyright to it because you have created it.
    When you hold the copyright you are in control of what can and cant be done to your work.
    You can choose where and how your work is distributed, if you distribute it yourself you can even control the price,
    most of the time you either sell or "rent" your copyright to a business tho (eg. music to record label).
    This all = unless the copyright holder has given permition that his work can be freely distributed, without paying,
    downloading = violation against the copyright = illegal.

    And to put this in a human perspective ...

    I play in a band, when people download our music they most of the time dont buy it ... everytime we lose a sale
    of one album = no pay for us (and no, we are not rich) and also less chance for us to make a new album
    since the first one doesnt sell well enough ... when you are not a "big" band, not a famous band as such
    you are really hurt when someone downloads your material.
    We spent a lot of our time and our souls to make music, we wrote it, we played it for hundreds of hours
    to make it work, changing it here and there, we recorded it (and studio time is NOT cheap !)
    and now after everything we have done it can be downloaded for free ... being heard is nice yes
    but it doesn't pay the bills ...

    If you download something that I have created and my livelyhood depends on it ... you are stealing from me ...

    Sorry for possible bad english, but it is not my first language.
     
  15. beesbees

    beesbees Skutter

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    The thing is, I can use my PC's TV card to record it off Dave, then cut out the adverts using an editing program. Then I have a digital file of the program. For free. That I can do what I like with.

    I've ended up with the same thing as if I was to download it, but completely legally.


    So what's the difference?
     
  16. davedwarf

    davedwarf Skutter

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    If you remove the internet, I wouldn't buy music, so that whole argument is moot. I have however bought every album that I discovered that I loved (Except Little by Little, Harvey Danger give you the download willingly but I will buy it if I see it in a shop)

    EDIT: Give up if you're not a good enough artist or embrace the age you live in.
     
  17. maverickuw

    maverickuw Skutter

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    That's the problem with the argument. You assume that one download = one lost sale. That's not necessarily true. It's quite possible that the person downloading your songs never intended to buy it. It's possible that they wanted to check you out.
     
  18. bendrago

    bendrago Skutter

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    I just have to assume that eg. 5 downloads = one lost sale and it still is a major problem, that would still be stealing my work.
     
  19. Spinal

    Spinal Skutter

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    The way I see it, pirates and customers are two entirely different groups. Pirates don't BUY media and customers don't PIRATE it. Yes I know that's generalising it a bit, but companies (and individuals of course) can not claim lost profits caused by downloading because given the choice, the people downloading would never have paid for the media in the first place. As a couple of people have mentioned already 1x download does not and never will result in 1x lost sale.
     
  20. kroppeur

    kroppeur Skutter

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    i cant get dave here and i cant wait for the dvd to come out but soon as they r out im buying it i got all the other show taped from tv with a lot of exclusive pbs pub but when they got out on dvd i ve buy them i got all the old serie (well got to buy the 8 yet ) on dvd and gonna buy anything new comming out.


    As a another have said i wont buy a dvd a know nothing from all dvd i ve nought i ve seen what s on it before

    long live red dwarf
     

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