Kochanski/Lister Continuity Fix

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by SixthDwarfer, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    Has anyone ever come up with a continuity fix to explain why Lister and Kochanski barely knew each other in I & II, but had a relationship in III onwards? I did hear someone suggest that after the events of 'Timeslides', Lister went back and altered his past, like getting his younger self to ask her out, even if it did go sour.
     
  2. GulDukat

    GulDukat Third Technician

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    Maybe in Timeslides, when Rimmer goes back in time and comes alive again, he changes the past so that Kochanski and Lister knew each other?
     
  3. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    I once argued - for fun, not intention of the makers - that the reason Rimmer was alive in the final moments of Timeslides was because, having met himself as a small boy in boarding school, the living Rimmer in Stasis Leak took his future self more seriously...and put himself in stasis after all.

    But Lister/Kochanski? Never found a good story for that one. I've seen some ascribe a multiverse logic - series III+ taking place in a different universe to I and II (also accounting for the shift to the 23rd century, the costume and set changes, etc.) but to be honestly I'm kinda indifferent to it all.
     
  4. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    I was thinking that too. If Rimmer went into stasis three weeks before the accident (on the advice of his future self in 'Stasis Leak') it might have caused Lister to have the confidence to speak to Kochanski and ask her out. The timescale means they could just about fit in a three week relationship before she died.

    One worry about this theory is that 'Timeslides' show that the crew retained their memories of the original timeline (i.e. Rimmer still remembered Lister, Cat and Kryten) and so if things did change, Lister would still not have remembered it.

    Sorry to nitpick, this is the best theory yet.

    I keep meaning to go over Series I & II and take down all metions of Lister and Kochanski's relationship. See if I can misconstrue what they say and do into being something else. For example, when Lister brings up the pool table story in 'Balance of Power' and says "we've never made love" he could mean they've never made love on a pool table, but they have had sexual relations. Or whatever.
     
  5. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    Here's another idea, when Future!Lister (from 'Stasis Leak') went back in time, he also manipulated events for Kochanski and his past self to fall in love and become a couple (figuring it would make it easier for him to convince her to marry him if they already had a pre-existing relationship).

    Either that or Lister's pining for her in series I & II is that he never bothered to try and win her back and ask her out again.
     
  6. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    That's a good idea. I thought maybe Kochanski just decided to hook up with past Lister after marrying his future self. I.e. after he returned to the future, I mean. I.e. maybe she didn't want to wait. That's assuming this is the past version of Kochanski that they meet in the hotel room, not a future version who came back with future Lister...

    If it is the past version, that wouldn't really explain why she decided to dump him though. You'd think if she was that willing to marry his future self she'd give him more of a chance rather than going back to Tim.

    Maybe the later time travel stuff of Time Slides somehow changed the time-line to alter events, including cancelling out the Stasis Leak stuff*. Maybe. Of course that doesn't explain what happened to cause Lister and Kochanski to get together, albeit for a short time period. It could just be a small thing the non dying (i.e. stasis) Rimmer said that he didn't in the original timeline.

    *Dear me, this time travel stuff is really confusing isn't it?
     
  7. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    Good thinking! I like that one!
     
  8. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    Like I said earlier, I'm tempted to retcon that line into meaning that Lister and Kochanski never made love in the situation he described to Rimmer (how many bins do you know that have pool tables behind them, after all). Also, Lister might make the distinction between making love and having sex.

    I think also Lister says to Rimmer in 'Confidence & Paranoia' that he never asked Kochanski out. In regards to Holly's word count, I tend to take the idea from 'Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers' that Holly was simply lying about how many words he'd shared with Rimmer and Kochanski in order to backup his feeble excuse for why he decided to bring Rimmer back and not Petersen or Kochanski instead.

    I too like the theory that the Future!Lister from 'Stasis Leak' is the one from 'Out of Time'. It makes sense - this Lister is dressed in a finely tailored suit, can afford a luxury hotel room and acts like a proper git to his younger self and Cat. Perhaps the time travelling lifestyle also corrupted Kochanski. After his accident, she might have left Lister because she was too shallow to call a brain in a jar her boyfriend.
     
  9. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    He probably spent weeks and weeks bottling it in asking her out before finally doing it.

    Yeah, that's the best I've got.
     
  10. Number_58

    Number_58 Second Technician

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    I'd take that as the best option. 'Twould explain Stasis Leak's Moustachio'd Rimmer. ;-)

    "In five years time you find another way to come back in time." The five years hadn't passed (biologically) for Lister by the start of Series VII anyway so there's room for the future selves to meddle with the time drive before they caused the paradox. Plus whatever damage Rimmer did when giving Thickie Holden the idea for the tension sheet ahead of schedule (I assume).
     
  11. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I still say there's the potential to do some truly awesome 'Trials and Tribble-ations' stuff if the show ever re-explores this lost arc.
     
  12. malysaaj

    malysaaj Skutter

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    Hopefully no one minds the revival of this thread, but I've had a rather good think,
    and I believe Lister not dating Kochanski can also be explained by the meddling of the
    corrupted time drive future Dave. From the book Red Dwarf: Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers,
    we learn that Dave never got up the nerve to ask Kochanski out, even in the reality that he
    dated her. Kochanski asked Dave out while he was trying to work up the nerve. It seems entirely
    plausible that time drive Dave would use the time drive to steal his girlfriend from his
    past self before Kochanski asked past Dave out. Kochanski never asked past Dave out because she
    was already dating future Dave and probably had been for awhile. After all, they did get married.
    So, when time drive Lister was oblivionized, the "original" time line was restored and Lister was
    asked out by a Kochanski who wasn't already dating Lister.

    I hope you don't find that garbled, confusing and quite frankly duller than an in-flight magazine produced by Air Belgium.
     
  13. mophead241

    mophead241 Catering Officer

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    So... Kochanski didn't go out with Lister because she had future Lister, when future Lister never got the time drive (if you say that Rimmer destroyed it at the end of Out of Time, rather than taking the series 7 explanation), she decided to get together with present Lister.

    An exellent plan, sir, with only two minor drawbacks:
    1. The time drive story was changed in series 7, as I have explained above (although you could say that the meeting with their future selves ensured that they didn't misuse the time drive).
    2. There are references to Lister and Kochanski being exes before series 6 (as if that's when the timeline changed, I would assume that that's when they remember things differently. This one is a matter of opinion.)

    Overall, as both drawbacks are only minor, and can be explained, I think that's problem solved.
     
  14. Kittypaws

    Kittypaws Flight Co-Ordinator

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    There are a lot of interesting theories put out here! :-)
     

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