Kochanski

Discussion in 'RED DWARF XI / XII' started by mtullock, Oct 16, 2016.

  1. mtullock

    mtullock First Technician

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    I cant take credit for this question.....but can we safely assume Kochanski is now dead? I am assuming the statis trip to the Nova 3 took a numbet of years..... Fair chance Kochanski wasnt in stasis.....even if she was. She would be far away. Also if Lister was so interested could he not have asked the Universe?
     
  2. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I'd say absolutely zero chance.
    As much as I never want to see her rejoining the cast as a permanent crew member, removing her from the show's end game simply isn't an option.

    The universe didn't even know it was going to die. It clearly wasn't omniscient. Why would it know where a speck of dust like a particular human being was?

    Also, why does everyone asking this assume that they went into Stasis for decades? It might only have been weeks or months.
     
  3. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    I think the assumption that it must have been a very long time is based on the fact that we don't normally see them go into stasis unless it's a long time. Because if it was only weeks or months, then why bother going into stasis? Why not just hang out aboard Red Dwarf like they presumably normally do? Or do they go into stasis between episodes? Why not go into stasis for the journey back to Earth anyway? What would be the difference between a few weeks going to the Nova 3 vs a few weeks continuing back to Earth? The only reason for them to go into stasis would be if it was a length of time that would significantly take up or exceed their lifespan.

    If it was only weeks or months, then the only solution I can think of is that Kryten went into stasis too, so maybe the reason they went into stasis rather than just go there like normal is because they were worried about Kryten's mental health deteriorating even further while they went there and wanted to cure him without (him being aware of the) delay.

    Besides, I reckon Kochanski was already dead as of Entangled: she was the person from the English boarding school that the BEGG chief ate!
     
  4. jimmydischarge

    jimmydischarge Third Technician

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    I really hope they don't bring her back. The one thing I like about these new seasons is how they're acting like VIII and most of VII never happened.
     
  5. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Kochanski states in Duct Soup that she went to Cyber school in Glasgow. That's Scotland, not England. So I'm afraid not.

    As you say, Lister wanted to solve Kryten's problem on the same day, not wait weeks or months to do it with Kryten acting weird and irritating, so it's very reasonable to think the stasis may only have lasted weeks or months.

    I don't think anybody wants her brought back as a main character, but she absolutely must be the end goal for Lister, she is an essential part of his plan.
     
  6. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Why does she have an English accent then. Maybe the BEGG made a reasonable assumption.
     
  7. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Because Chloe Annett is English, playing an alernate universe upper class, privately educated version of what was originally a more broadly Scottish character. It's in the script and one of Doug's rare attempts at continuity. I don't think we should call him out on it, since he made the effort to explain it.
     
  8. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    IMO, no. As has been said already, we have no real idea how long they were in stasis and absolutely no idea what has happened to Kochanski in the intervening time. She could have gone straight into deep sleep/stasis the moment her ship was clear of Red Dwarf and still be there, safe and unageing or like the first Cat Arc she could have flown straight into an asteroid, or anything inbetween (It's not impossible that Kryten lied again, or she lied about her intentions to Kryten and she's still aboard Red Dwarf, just in a different section hidden from the crew.

    As for her accent, regional and even national dialects are becoming increasing homogenised already, it's not impossible that especially for a cyber-school educated well off girl any accent might be imperceptible. Even among the modern British Army, it's not uncommon in Scottish units for the officers (who often come from well off, privately educated backgrounds) to have very English accents, even though they were genuine Scots and their soldiers have broad Scots accents.
     
  9. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    He could have hired a Scottish actress, or hired an actress capable of speaking in another accent. Actors speak in other accents all the time. Half the cast of Walking Dead are English, but their characters still have American accents because the actors are acting. Was this explained when she was introduced, or are you saying we were supposed to infer that she speaks with a Southern English accent because she was privately-educated and Clare-Kochanski presumably wasn't?
     
  10. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    I'm entirely confident that Grogan's Kochanski and Annett's Kochanski look and sound entirely the same to the characters in universe, as for her accent, as it's perfectly explainable within the context of what we know about her and her upbringing it really isn't an issue IMO.
     
  11. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I think its still preferable that actors speak in thekr own accent if possible. Less chance of fairness and slip-ups.

    On the case of the Walking Dead the characters are American characters in America.

    I'm the case of Kochanski, being Scottish isn't really central to her character. The only time it was inferred was when she said she was educated in Glasgow, and that was one scene im the extended version of Duct Soup!

    And besides, as has been said, people don't always speak on the regional accent of the area where they originate.

    While on holiday I met a Welsh girl from Cardiff. Not only was she Welsh, she informed me that Welsh is actually her first language. She told me this is a perfect, rather posh English accent.
     
  12. R.I.P. 2000

    R.I.P. 2000 Deck Sergeant

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    I do think this was a script cock up, and we can reasonably assume that Kochanski would have died of old age while the crew were in stasis.

    However, since they didn't explicitly say they would be in there for hundreds of years, I'm happy to accept the "fix" where it was only weeks or months of stasis.
     
  13. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Of course, who's to say Kochanski isn't also in stasis.
     
  14. R.I.P. 2000

    R.I.P. 2000 Deck Sergeant

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    She could be, but it would be an amazing fluke if she was - given that Lister had no way of knowing that, or reason to expect it.
     
  15. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    It would be an amazing fluke if she'd been in stasis for exactly the same amount of time. Given that they don't seem to think much of using stasis or deep sleep for hundreds of years at a time, it wouldn't be that surprising for her to be aboard a Starbug somewhere, cruising on autopilot and safely sealed away in a booth/pod/unit/whatever though.
     
  16. R.I.P. 2000

    R.I.P. 2000 Deck Sergeant

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    True - but Lister was taking an enormous risk by going into stasis himself. If she wasn't in stasis, she would age while he was in there.

    I guess I'm less bothered by the thought of how to bring her back - there are several possibilities, after all - and more bothered by the idea that Lister would go into stasis, not knowing where Kochanski was or what she was doing. Surely he wouldn't have thought, "Well she might be in stasis too, for all I know" - and just been happy to chance it?

    After all, the whole thing was a bit of a whim. Visiting the Nova 3 was hardly a matter of life or death. He just wanted to cheer Kryten up.
     
  17. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    There's no way Lister would have gone into stasis for centuries knowing Kochanski is out there and possibly not in stasis. To my mind, the only explanation that works is that the trip was unusually short for stasis, but they went into stasis to prevent Kryten deteriorating further and/or so they wouldn't have to put up with him in the meantime.

    Edit: Have we ever seen Kryten go into stasis? I assume him being a mechanoid is irrelevant because stasis is to do with freezing time rather than anything biochemical. Rimmer can presumably just be switched off. Although historically he has always been very resistant to being switched off, not trusting them to switch him on again.
     
  18. R.I.P. 2000

    R.I.P. 2000 Deck Sergeant

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    Yes, we have to go with that.

    But I'm surprised if it was what the writer intended :P
     
  19. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    Here's a theory that occurred to me on the drive in to work just now.

    Kochanski is not dead. Or at the very least, Lister believes 100% he will find her at some stage in the future.

    What makes me say this, is going back to one of my least liked aspects of the Red Dwarf canon, Ouroborous.

    Lister knows, or at least believes that he fathers himself with Kochanski, as this hasn't happened yet it means that he has to find Kochanski, or at least a version of Kochanski at some point in the future. As you say JMC2000, there are a number of options that are open, he can travel back to a time when she is alive, he can find a working rejuvenation shower or DNA machine that can bring her remains back from the dead, he can find her again in this timeline or something else entirely.

    This does raise the issue though of why he seemed so gutted when he believed she was dead at the start of Back to Earth, however I think this can be resolved by the fact that he believed that the Kochanski he'd spent the most time so far with was lost and even if he believed he would meet another Kochanski in the future, the idea in an infinite multiverse of potentially just keeping on finding and losing her until he found the version willing to breed with him must have seemed a bit callous and unappealing.

    So ultimately, maybe the Kochanski from Series VIII is dead, but aa far as he's concerned thanks to Ouroborous, he knows he's going to get her back at some point anyway.
     
  20. R.I.P. 2000

    R.I.P. 2000 Deck Sergeant

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    Ah, but it has happened!

    In Ouroboros, she provided an in vitro tube with one of her eggs in it. That produced a baby, and Lister took it back in time to the Aigburth Arms. That box has already been ticked.

    EDIT:
     

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