Least Favorite Episode of each Series

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Tex_Rimmer, Apr 15, 2009.

  1. platini

    platini Third Technician

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    1. Waiting For God. I think simply because the whole sequence with the Cat Priest just isn't funny and doesn't work at all.

    2. Better Than Life. I've really never enjoyed this episode at all; just not as funny as the others.

    3. Backwards. For no real reason beyond it being not quite up there with the other episodes.

    4. White Hole. I think because the whole episode rests on one huge coincidence (that a white hole shows up precisely and exactly when they really need it).

    5. Terrorform. Firstly because it's the least good individual episode of the best series, and secondly because the crew's final "No!" to Rimmer always struck me as needlessly cruel and callous.

    6. Out Of Time. Because I think it does feel rushed and not funny enough: particularly the opening morale meeting and the meeting with the future selves. (Though I like the "pre-renaissance deep space" line.)

    7. Tikka To Ride. It's a tough one, not because it's picking the weakest of six strong candidates but the weakest of eight weak ones. Maybe it's that JFK is one of my favourite movies, maybe it's the sinking feeling that hit me when I saw the post-production film look.

    8. Only The Good. For the ending.

    9. Part 2. Because everything about C*r*n*t**n Str**t stinks bigtime.
     
  2. Tex_Rimmer

    Tex_Rimmer First Technician

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    I like this one, and might even consider it to be the best of the season, but there is one thing I've never liked about it. In one of his less smeggy moments, Rimmer bares his soul and reveals that the one thing he's always wanted was for his dad to be proud of him. Probably a lot of people can identify with that and sympathize with him. But the whole reason that exists is so that the Cat can kick him when he's down and have his dad tell him he's a complete smeghead. It's funny, but it feels wrong, like we shouldn't be enjoying it. Later in the episode, we go back to feeling sorry for him again, when he can't enjoy the game because his brain won't let him be happy.

    It just seems that the discussion of Rimmer's relationship with his dad was a very private moment between him and Lister, and it feels wrong to have the Cat injecting himself into it that way.
     
  3. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    You must have really hated part 3 then! :?
     
  4. Tex_Rimmer

    Tex_Rimmer First Technician

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    I didn't think Waiting for God was a knock at religion, per se, either (though probably a lot of people wanted to hear that, and so did).

    Really, it's more about fanaticism. People do get fanatical about religion, of course, but they also get that way about politics, sports (and even about Red Dwarf, for that matter). We can see that from the episode, where Rimmer has the same kind of attitude about aliens that the Cat Crusaders had about Cloister, but he thought it was different because "This is science, miladdo!". Of course the point is that it's really not different at all.

    That's because the problem isn't in the content of the belief, it's in the attitude towards them. Rimmer got fooled because Holly and Lister deliberately fooled him, true. But it was also because, in a way, he wanted to be fooled. He decided the truth in advance of the facts and refused to consider anything else. That's a bad attitude to have, because even when you are right, it's more a matter of luck than anything else. You were only right by guessing.

    You see that in politics a lot. In every election, there's people on both sides, absolutely convinced, beyond all reason that their candidate is going to win. In the end about half of them believe that they were "proven" right, when really all that happened is that they guessed right, and didn't really know anything.

    In World War II, the Japanese navy did a wargame simulation of the Battle of Midway beforehand, and got a result that was pretty much the same as what eventually happened. But they didn't like the result (it showed them losing, after all), decided it must therefore be unreliable, and threw it out. Same attitude.

    Still, I didn't think the whole episode worked, at least not compared to the other Season 1 episodes. I'd like to know what Lister would have done had the Cat Priest not conveniently snuffed it at the end of the scene. If we'd known he was dying, maybe it would have been an act of kindness, but what if he'd stayed alive? Would Lister have kept lying to him long term? That seems to become less and less kind the longer it goes on.
     
  5. jaybo1973

    jaybo1973 Catering Officer

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    Balance of power (still great though)
    Parallel universe (still great though)
    Backwards (still half decent)
    Camille
    Demons and Angels (still great though)
    Rimmerworld (still half decent)
    Duct soup (but the others are not far behind)
    To hard to pick out one bad episode


    Can't understand why people are saying stasis leak for series 2, my favourite episode :-)
     
  6. kochanskitis

    kochanskitis Third Technician

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    Series 1: Waiting 4 God (not much in it like otheres have said it was marginally weaker than other candidates)
    Series 2: Kryten(kryten as a charcater didn't quite work. Glad Bobby took over and the character got an overall)
    Series 3: Bodyswap. Once again close with Timeslides. Not really any weak episodes.
    Series 4: Camille. has the one of the best scenes(the lying one) but as an overall piece work perfectly
    Series 5: Demons & Angels:-(only because all the other episdoes were so good)
    Series 6: Emohawk: (didn't like silly return of ace & dwayne)
    Series7: Stoke me a clipper( hate this episode. Really ruins dimension jump as it destroys the character of Ace. Just read backwards and once again loved real ace. If i could get rid of one epipode forver it would be this one)
    Series 8: Pete. (bad)
     
  7. J_Spaced

    J_Spaced Second Technician

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    Have to agree, these are difficult ones to call:
    Series 1: Waiting For God. Not actually a "Bad" episode, but not the best of the six. Got to love the look of bliss with the return of the priest's "burned" hat. But Lister's dream of a burger bar AND a farm just seems odd.
    Series 2: Thanks For the Memory, some quite drawn out and daft bits that just didn't gel as well as other episodes.
    Series 3: Backwards. Not because it's bad but because it's not actually running backwards!
    Series 4: DNA - because its.. well... really bad science fiction. But then it had Kryten's spare head cupboard which was good, up to the point where Kryten rejects them. Oh it's so hard to decide.
    Series 5: Demons and Angels, not because it's bad but because it's not my favourite. This is my favourite series, I think.
    Series 6: Rimmerworld simply because Rimmer crosses the line from desperate to attempted premeditated incest. (See below)
    Series 7: Ouroborous again because of the suggestion of premeditated incest that's actually acknowledged in the script. Followed by the decision to dump a baby in order to make an angry, disillusioned, rebellious slob for all eternity. There should have been another reason Lister was abandoned. Also, the science doesn't work. A baby isn't a clone. The baby wouldn't "be" Lister. It makes no sense.
    Series 8: Pete. What? Why? Couldn't you have done two less episodes, maybe moved the production blocks to the other stories? No. No excuse there guys.
     
  8. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Although the baby isn't naturally conceived the suggestion that Lister can still go on lusting after a woman he now knows to be his mum is a rather horrible one. It would have still worked had Listers Mum been parallel Kochanski and she had gone back to her own universe with Lister continuing to want "his" Kochanski (i.e the one who wasn't his mother!). I hope that somehow they resolve them finally finding the Blue Midget with Parallel Kochanski having gone back to her own universe and the search then starting again for a way to bring back the original.
     
  9. kochanskitis

    kochanskitis Third Technician

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    I don't see how it can be called incest when he's his own biological father. it would be different if the biological father was someone else rather than himself. In reality he's just still in love with the woman who is the mother of his child.
     
  10. Tex_Rimmer

    Tex_Rimmer First Technician

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    To be fair, though I like Dimension Jump, and think it's the best of Season 4, it has one gigantic galaxy-sized jockstrap flaw in it. I've never been able to believe that they'd send their best pilot on a test mission where they know in advance that there was no chance of him coming back and reporting any results he's learned. I always cringe when Bongo says that bit about "It's a one-way trip, Ace. There's NO coming back." I've seen people who had little or no prior knowledge of Red Dwarf see that episode, and express incredulity at exactly the same spot, with no prompting.


    Now, as for Stoke Me a Clipper, I like that one too, but it introduces a giant, hitherto unknown GAP in Dimension Jump. In DJ, we hear that Ace is going to a dimension where there's another Arnold Rimmer. He takes off jumps, bumps into Starbug, and meets another Arnold Rimmer, just like Bongo said.

    At least that's the way it seemed at the time. (And the narration at the end talks about one Ace continuing "his" hopeless quest). In Stoke, we hear that the Ace in Stoke is the same Ace that they met in Dimension Jump, but he's NOT the Ace that took off from Mimas earlier in that same episode.

    So, after the retcon, what actually happened in DJ is this: Ace took off from the base, dimension jumped, had adventures (which may or may not have included meeting another Arnold Rimmer), passed his mantle along, and died. Then the story jumps ahead thousands of years in the history of Ace to where Ace #262,436 (or whatever; make up a number you like) finally meets the boys from the Dwarf.

    It all makes sense, but I still find it a bit disturbing. Whenever I watch Dimension Jump now, I still pretend that the Ace who takes off from the base is the same Ace they meet on Starbug, because that's the way the writers intended it to be perceved at the time. And certain Ace lines like "I can't go back, but there are a billion other universes to explore" make very little sense after the retcon.

    One thing I've always found hard to conceptualize about Stoke. Arnie J was recruited because the previous Ace was mortally wounded, but still alive long enough to train him. But surely that's not always so. Take Ace #1, who caught the business end of a neutron tank. Surely that killed him instantly, leaving no time to recruit a replacement. Does that mean he'd already recruited a replacement when he died? Is it usual for Ace to train somebody with the understanding that "You're Ace the minute something happens to me. Until then, lie low"? That cold be a bummer if somebody gets trained to be Ace but doesn't end up actually getting the job until years later.
     
  11. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    So you think the Ace they met in Dimension Jump was a hologram replacement for the one who left Mimas?

    That wasn't the impression I got, although considering he left from the 21st/22nd/23rd Century, and the amount of light bees orbitting the planet at the end of Stoke, I can see how you'd came up with that idea. It think the 3 million time difference is maybe due to time moving at different rates in different universes, or maybe the DJ drive can take you across time too.

    The one from Mimas, was the one they met in Dimension Jump. He is human. He then left, and somewhere out there died in a neutron bomb explosion. Millions of Aces later (I think we have to assume some timey wimey stuff is occurring between episodes since it's only a few years from our Dwarfers' point of view) the latest Holo-Ace meets them in Stoke.

    I see your point about recruitment though. I think we can only assume he finds and trains the next recruits on the off-chance something will happen. I think the implication is that this Ace is late in finding his next recruit. Remember he told Rimmer that he normally had more time (or words to that affect.) I wonder if they usually upload their memories into the next recruit too... but I'm not sure.
     
  12. Tex_Rimmer

    Tex_Rimmer First Technician

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    No, actually I may be mistaken about that. I might be thinking of something in the deleted scene, where Ace tells Lister how he was recruited. I'm looking at a transcript of the episode as broadcast, and Ace specifically tells Rimmer "I'm not the Ace you met last time, Arnie." I think in the deleted scene he said he was, but I guess that's part of why it was deleted. I'll have to look at it again.


    EDIT: Yeah, I'm starting to remember it now. Ace tells Lister something like "Remember that story I told you last time about how getting left back a year gave me that kick in the teeth I needed?" "Are you saying that story's about as accurate as Helen Keller's golf swing?" "Oh, it's true, Davey, but it happened to the first Ace."

    But of course, that scene was cut, and in the final cut, Ace says he's not the same Ace as last time. So, forget what I said about a Gap in Dimension Jump.
     
  13. wannabe

    wannabe First Technician

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    Its great reading this and the reasons why people have put them as their least favourite.
    Especially when what they have picked as their least favourite is your favourite episode.
     
  14. Gluben

    Gluben Third Technician

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    That "rushed" element is one of the reasons I think it's the best of series VI, plus the fact that there are no guest stars. I would probably go for Rimmerworld, just because it seems a bit of a repeat of Terrorform, and not enough time is actually given to Rimmerworld itself. You could argue the same point for Emohawk: Polymorph II with Ace and Duane, but their appearances edge it out over the final "escape plan" of Rimmerworld. However, I do like the way Rimmerworld connects to Gunmen of the Apocalypse by re-using the same enemy from "a couple of weeks back", and foreshadows Out of Time with the "terrible thing that's happened to Lister".
     
  15. Cloud

    Cloud Console Officer

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    Series 1: Waiting for God. (I just dont like the cat people thingy)
    Series 2: Thanks for the Memory ( I just think its slow and boring and not very funny)
    Series 3: Ohhh this is tough, I love series 3 but I will go with Marooned (I still love, but i guess just less than the others)
    Series 4: Meltdown (this one just is a bit lame)
    Series 5: Again I love so much of this Series...Ummm I guess..Terrorform (I love this one I guess just less than the others again)
    Series 6: Out of Time (No real reason just like it less

    Series 7: God where to start, I hate episodes that crap on pervious Episodes so:
    Tikka to ride: Craps on the time drive joke from just the previous episode boo it
    Stoke me a clipper ruins and craps all over dimesion jump and ruins ace rimmer
    Ouroborus: This is my least favourite Episode ever. its terrible, Ruins the Rimmer being an orphan thing, ruins kochanski, that scene on old red dwarf with her, rimmer and lister makes me cringe every time.

    Umm also I hate Beyond a joke, its pretty terrible. Duct soup is pretty boring as well. The rest of the series is ok though.

    Series 8: Pete parts 1 and 2. Booo this, it just sucks. Also only the good for the ending.
     
  16. RotootHununga

    RotootHununga Third Technician

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    Series I : Confidence and Paranoia Boring, padded.
    Series II : Kryten Nice but the plot goes nowhere.
    Series III : The Last Day Pads out an awful lot with action and drama with a deficit of jokes.
    Series IV : Justice
    Series V : Demons and Angels Good but how many times do we have to see alternate versions of our characters?
    Series VI : Out of Time Choppily edited, sparsly plotted. A blip in a great series.
    Series VII : Duct Soup it was this or Beyond a Joke, Beyond beats it because of the awesome Tank Jane Austen sequence.
    Series VIII: Only the Good... Unsatisfying ending, weird plot. Suffers from the same choppyness of Out of Time.
    BTE : Part 1 Slow, padded, creaky and slightly embarressing performances but no comparison with the next too parts.
     
  17. platini

    platini Third Technician

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    That's fair enough, I probably meant Part 3 but that's also got a very nice conclusion to it. And, of course, we don't know the truth about C*r*n*t**n Str**t's relevance in Part 2.
     
  18. wannabe

    wannabe First Technician

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    Nearly finished rewatching all the episodes.
    I must say watching series 7 & 8 sadly does make me appreciate series 1-6 a whole lot more.
    There are some funny moments in 7 & 8 but with 1-6 there are non-stop laughs, pure genius.
     
  19. J_Spaced

    J_Spaced Second Technician

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    It's his Mum. He had a baby with his Mum. His mother is the mother of his child. Whether he loves her or not is irrelevant. That's even forgoing the biological impossibility that it would be a direct copy of himself (it just doesn't work like that). The only explanation there is that the little gestation tube thingy did something wierd to his DNA in there.

    It's just so horrible on various levels. Including, how much cajoling would he have had to do, to convince Kochanski to leave her son behind, when they actually breached universes to conceive the kid in the first place! I was watching it, hoping that they'd reach the pub and bump into Lister's Dad abandoning the child and realise that it went differently to Lister's ghastly idea. Then they could have returned as a family to Starbug. Lister a Dad would have made a good series.

    The parallel Kochanski thing doesn't nullify the fact of the incest, parallel Kochanski is his mother. He made a baby with his mother. Ok, it's him, but it's still a horrifying concept. :shock:
     
  20. J_Spaced

    J_Spaced Second Technician

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    Be fair, if you were a happily married man (you might be) and yet found yourself as attracted to another hetrosexual man as poor Bongo found himself, wouldn't you want a couple of realities between you and him?

    J :-D
     

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