Lister in Series X

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by bedfordfalls, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I wanted to wait until we'd had our first "Lister Episode" before I made this topic in which we can discuss Lister as a character and Craig Charles performance of him in the series.

    Two episodes in I'm not really sure what to make of him.

    Back to Earth told us about a Lister who had spent the past nine years "being daft and drinking", a man who had given up on himself and his plan and lost Kochanski again as a result. By the end of that Easter special it seemed he had been reborn, had rediscovered himself and the chirpy optimistic spirit of the Lister from the early series was back and ready to get his life back in order.
    Craig Charles also showed a phenomenal shift in his acting abilities and delivered a stunning "decision" scene that tugged at the heartstrings of anyone who ever cared about the character.

    So what do we get in Series X.

    The first episode sees Lister reduced back to the dope he was written as in Series 8 and large parts of series VII. Prepared to endanger the lives of others in order to make a complaint to a call centre!
    I didn't want to judge him in this episode as he was relegated to second fiddle in what was a very Rimmer-centric story but after watching Fathers and Suns I think its now fair too comment on him.

    What Lister is this? Where has the hope of BtE gone? The man drank beer milkshakes in his twenties but now he is portrayed as a borderline alcoholic? This looked more like the Lister described by the kids on the bus than the one who resolved to get Kochanski back in BtE.
    I've enjoyed Craig's performance of him so far but I did think the "father and son" stuff had the potential to be darker, especially from the "Dad" Lister who could have got really angry with his son's failure to even start looking for Kochanski.

    I don't know if Doug is deliberately portraying Lister like this because he's going to do another restore of his character nearer the time when he actually does start to find Kochanski but I wasn't really that happy that after "being brave and saving the universe" the episode ended with him reverting to type. It was like he learned nothing.
     
  2. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I know what you mean. He does seem to have backslidden somewhat... yet the 'father' persona proved that he is very much aware of this when he told Lister to take enlist in the Engineering programme and search for Kochanski.

    I get the impression that Series X probably isn't set just after BtE. While we don't really know how much time has passed, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same amount of time as it has been for us. It's understandable that if the search became unfruitful, that Lister would get disheartened and drift back into his old ways. I'm not over keen on it myself, as I quite liked the idea of The Search for Kochanski being an optimistic arc running through the series, but I guess they wanted to perform a bit of a reset to bring it in line with previous series.

    However, please note I said "bit of a reset" rather than a "full reset". Lister's little heart to heart with himself corroborates this, that it may just be a minor setback. (And ironically it was the drunken Lister who stated this!) It's still early days yet.
     
  3. Dsnow_con

    Dsnow_con Third Technician

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    I rather like Lister thus far. While he’s very much the classic, immature Lister we all first came to love, there are hints of him being older and wiser. Personally I don’t think I would have liked a fully matured Lister searching for Kochanski, and I think his representation so far makes sense. He is still essentially a space bum drifting through life with little prospect of ever achieving any of his goals, so why not crack a can and have a laugh?
     
  4. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I would have liked to have seen a bit longer given to the Kochanski discussion than just "Build a home and then go and find Krissie". It was nice that they at least addressed it but it does appear to indicate that there has been something of a shift in Lister's plans.

    I think I can talk about it now that the episode has aired but Doug talked about the "Dad" plot for Fathers and Sons at a recent convention and also apparently mentioned something that the episode didn't touch on: that Lister would come to terms with the fact that, really speaking, he doesn't actually have anything to offer Kochanski. It seemed like he would reevaluate his rather naive dream of what he wanted and start looking at what he could do for her. Perhaps I'm looking into it too much but maybe the idea of building a home first might be part of this so that Kochanski doesn't just come back to him because he's the last man alive or worse, because she's always dreamed of a life riding horses on flooded Fiji.

    I was sort of hoping that the episode would culminate with a bit of pathos after the guitar playing celebration of relief over defeating Pree. Maybe a final video of Lister congratulating his "son".

    As it is I was rather disappointed that his character was essentially reset in the end sequence and it was back to drinking and videogames. It reminded me of the ending to Shaun of the Dead which I've often found a little strange, in that Shaun goes through an emotional journey, realises why he got dumped becomes a hero then...BANG. Everything is just as it was at the beginning and he's back to being lazy again.
     
  5. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    I'm wondering though if the change that everyone has spoken about in lister is similar to that "sensitive dave" in kochanskis dimension? Of course he had been with her longer, and for a large portion of that time he was soft light, while being a bum he would be more forced to do nothing than choose to ( he can't touch anything, read anything without help, ride a bike, pick up a can of beer or eat a curry), which would help, but also wanting to sort himself out and be attractive to Kochanski would have affected him.

    Ok, our lister hasn't been with her so long, hasn't been a hologram except the time he switched with rimmer, and obviously he was still drinking heavily with her, as well as we saw he became a bit of a wimp when she arrived, but this could have heralded so,e of the changes in him that continue to series x.
     
  6. Dsnow_con

    Dsnow_con Third Technician

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    That a decent point bedfordfalls, I would like to see a scene or two of the more grown up, pathos invoking Dave. I suspect maybe we will in 'Dear Dave' (this is just a guess, I haven't even read the synopsis).

    Funny enough, in another thread some people are complaining Dave isnt immature and slobby enough. Just goes to show that with a show like this it's pretty much impossible to satisfy everyone.
     
  7. danatblair

    danatblair Third Technician

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    Lister said he joined some sort of robotics training program in F&S. If he carries through with this and develops some of the skills that he has let fallow I'll be a bit happier. I kinda liked the mature and optimistic Lister. I sense that this season might have some recurring themes (family, the trojan and it's technology). If Lister's growth is one of the recurring themes that slowly buildss over the course of the series, I'll be a hit happier.
     
  8. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I know he went back to gaming and drinking at the end of Fathers and Suns, but I hope he goes ahead with that training programme too. I like the fact he's a bit of a bum (it's a big part of the character) and he shouldn't lose that entirely, but I like the glimmers of productivity we see in some episodes. Taking that a bit further wouldn't be a bad thing.
     
  9. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    Mr. Bedford falls sir. Stop ripping the show to shreds. Stop watching if you dont like it.
     
  10. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    Also Lister has been brilliant. Craig hasn't changed one bit for me. Just as good as it always was.
     
  11. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    How about you let those of us that want to discuss the show in an intelligent, adult manner do so, without feeling the need to provide snide little comments that add nothing to the conversation. I set up these topics to give people who like to do so the chance to discuss their views on the individual characters of the show in the new series, good or bad. If you don't like my discussion topics stop (selectively) reading them. Or you could try giving your own views instead of just baselessly ripping into other people for not sharing them.
    This is a Red Dwarf discussion forum, not a place for you to play King and order people to "stop watching the show" simply because you apparently disagree with their views.
     
  12. kochanskitis

    kochanskitis Third Technician

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    I was hoping for a continuation of the revitalised driven with purpose once more Lister post BTE. A bum with a purpose. Sad to see it hasn't emerged so far.
     
  13. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    It could just be that this version of Lister was reset a little for the purposes of F&S's plot which sort of required him to be in a bit of a rut again. Both he and Rimmer seem to be great procrastinators. Lister seems to be a guy who has big ideas but doesn't see any hurry to get started on them, whereas Rimmer has big ideas but subconsciously doesn't actually care enough about them to make them happen he just craves the rewards.

    I don't think I can mention it in this thread yet but the teaser trailer for Episode 3 does show Lister doing something that might seem to be a continuation of the more positive aspect of his journey of self-improvement.
     
  14. TouchT1701

    TouchT1701 Third Technician

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    Great thoughts...
    I haven't re-visited any of the series, lately, so BTE, is not fresh in my mind... but I vaguely recall it going the way you stated. I too hope we get more than the buffoon Listie, as great comedy doesn't just come out of slapstick.
     
  15. ghastly98

    ghastly98 First Technician

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    For the alcohol, Lister appears to be a somewhat light drinker, or at least average. He just seems to get smashed one day a year, being Father's Day, and that served practical purpose.

    As for finding Kochanski, I'm assuming that they ARE doing that. Starbug was capable of tracking Red Dwarf, and in "Identity Within" it was able to track other Cats. Being that Lister and Kochanski are the last humans alive, they could track humans much as they tracked cats and Red Dwarf. So while they don't have a large idea of where she is, she has been travelling for years, after all, but I'm sure they are looking for her in some capacity. If they couldn't track her, then finding her would be almost pointless. The Universe is big. Where would she be? They wouldn't know where to look.
     
  16. Butterpat_head

    Butterpat_head Third Technician

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  17. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I liked the way Lister was written in Lemons. There was none of the Fry-ish stupidity of Trojan and he felt once again like the moral compass of the crew, saying the right things at the right time and keeping the gang (and J.C) centred.

    I hope he continues in this vein and doesn't veer off into caricature again.
     
  18. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I think Lister in Entangled was probably my favorite portrayal so far. I think they really got the balance right. He was a slob but a motivated slob and the dangers he got himself into stemmed from his proactive hunt for Kochanski.
    I know people have criticised him for seemingly not being bothered by the demise of Irene (although I've already given my opinions as to why I disagree with that) but there was plenty of him as the moral core of the crew: offering the aforementioned lady his coat for example.
     
  19. fatar760

    fatar760 Skutter

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    In answer to the OP query, and apologies if this has already been mentioned, but, isn't BTE supposed to be set AFTER series 10? In other words Lister's depressing/alcoholic character that he finishes season 10 with he then resumes at BTE?

    If this is the case then it would open questions about why Rimmer's character has then change from 10 to BTE :-p
     
  20. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    It has been mentioned. A lot.

    "Series 10" was a line of dialogue in BTE. It has nothing to do with the actual Series X.

    RDX takes place after BTE. This is unequivocal fact.
     

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