Misfire

Discussion in 'THE AIGBURTH ARMS' started by neilold, Jun 9, 2017.

  1. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Looks like the conservative plans have backfired and they gonna end up in a worst state than before. I'm actually glad the public have actually effectively given her the v sign. It looks like the end for my beloved ukip.

    Which has left me in the doldrums, but not exactly suprised. However a bad thing is we_re going to end up with another week coalition style government with all the problems that brings. However the dup are even more hard brexit than the Tories. So I suppose it's a kinda victory in that sense.
     
  2. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Agreed regarding May. She scares me.

    Can't say I'm sad about UKIP, but it's of little surprise if they fade away now given what their original goal was.

    I'm happy to hear that Caroline Lucas has almost doubled her majority vote. :-)
     
  3. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    yu can't simply assume that everybody who votes tory hates old people, or the disabled, or the nhs, that's ridiculous. I cant stand the tories myself, but you have to acknowledge there popularity. Its down to political attitudes, manifold separate issues, such as the local , and national candidate, financial leanings, brexit, family traditons, class, and untold other things, both personal, regional and political. also everybody you speak to does not represent the entire national mood. Lets face it, even the parties themselves are massively riddled with factionalism on every conceivable issue, so if they can't get it together, what chance the public? Also there fall can be put down to a disastorously arrogant cult of personality campaign, and a manifesto that ate itself, along with some of the endless issues that I've listed above
     
  4. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    personally we are now in my favourite part of politics. Immediate post election analysis. I could discuss this for days. This election is certainly a baffler. On the subject of brexit alone it's an odd one, was the tory downfall a result of a rejection of brexit, or was it something else. also are the tories now ironically in an even stronger position on this issue, given that the DUP are the hardest brexiteers going, second only to UKIP?

    Me personally, I am now in a strange position, my party are basically dead ducks, so I find myself as a voter effectively without party,, im basically a pre previous election boris Johnson, gawd help me! Woe is me! What will now become of ukip, and what will they focus on? I was also surprised that Jeremy Corbyn appears to be more popular within the voters within his party that previously seen, in a voting sense, not a personal sense. Also what future Teresa may? her cult is shot to pieces, from a public viewpoint, and the manifesto was a suicide note essentially, yet she still retains power and is in a stronger position now on cerain issues, despite the coalition of chaos that is predicted. Brexit talks themselves are imminent so, that'll have to be resolved also. The saying is true, politically going forward anyway, 'we live in strange and unpredictable times'
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  5. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Freeborn I would be interested in your take on why Caroline Luucas has dramtically increase her vote this time. Do you put it down to her personality, local issues, or a further rejection and separation (politcaly and locally geographically) away from the main parties? Or is it something entirely different?
     
  6. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    The country itself is now fractured, and in disarray. Orange is the blue . We have a prospect of yet another election this year, which is about as wanted as genital warts. Corbyn is incapable of running the country despite improvement amongst the electorate. A snap election that had infuriated the electorate, an imminent cabinet reshuffle, a desperate attempt to arrange a queens speech
    A leader that has being discredited, and has knives lined up for her., And specifically her advisors. However despite all this she had 44 percent of the vote which is Thatcher heyday levels!
     
  7. Curryman

    Curryman Deck Sergeant

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    True, but that 44% gave Thatcher's Conservatives 339 seats in 1979, 397 seats in 1983, and 379 seats in 1987. So far more than May's 318.
     
  8. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    People don't necessarily vote for the Tories for the reasons you've outlined. To put the shoe on the other foot, Tory-voters could say they're astounded that such a large percentage of the population loves Jihadists, given they voted for parties that appeared softer on Jihadism. People have different priorities. Not everyone is thinking about the same things you're thinking about. You vote based on the elderly and disabled and assume everyone else does, but they don't. Voting for a party that will help the elderly less doesn't mean one "hates the elderly", just like voting for a party that seems softer on Jihadism doesn't mean one "loves Jihadis".

    Your social media feed probably doesn't contain a cross-section of rich and poor, young and old, northern and southern, etc. Social media is an echo chamber. You probably surround yourself with people that are like you. Your social media feed is not a representation of society at large, it's a representation of the people you've friended. A Tory-voter on social media could see a feed full of Tory-voters every day and wonder where Labour votes are coming from. They're coming from people that aren't on your feed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
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  9. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Yes it did curryman. Which is a reflection of the topsy turvy nature of modern day politics and effects that a system that is not simply two party can have
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  10. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Yes correct deep space that also backs up my claims
     
  11. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Very gratifying that a large chuck of the media's attempt to demonise Jeremy Corbyn also misfired 8-)

    Actually, it sealed my decision weeks ago to vote for him as I was so sick of the unfair and often outrageous treatment he was receiving.
     
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  12. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Pretty much certain I would imagine. The trouble is we are now in a position of being stuck with her. For the continuity of the government which needs to try it's best to project an image of strong nation durung the brexit process at least.
     
  13. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I still have to disagree with what you say about the Tories. Yes some Tories may fit into your category, but not all. You can't just blame every ill in society on the Tories. Labour and the other parties are just as bad. They don't stand out as some kind of glaring beacon of a suddenly utopian uk. They all piss in the same pot anyway. Including my own party, ukip. I'd give up on your labour dreams if I were you, for the immediate future anyway, if they were that wonderful in thepublic's eyes they'd have won themselves. what is it specifically that you don't like against tory financial policy. It's unfairness on the lower classes, or something else? yes it may be unfair, but again, you can't simply say the public has no responsibility at all for its financial position, and it's all the Tories fault, we've had labour government before, and things didn't magically suddenly got better over night because of it.also people like diane Abbott made total fools of themselves regarding their financial competence , though she personally had an increase in her own constituency, which says a lot about the competence of the local electorate!I do understand your frustration though. Imagine how I felt when I couldn't even vote for my own party!
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  14. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I know I must sound like I'm being deliberately being horrible to you pjh. But I'm not, I do understand your frustration. I'm just expressing my opinion over something that is important to me, politics, just as you are. So I hope you don't take it the wrong way. I'm actually very glad somebody is so passionate about it, it makes a change from the usual indifferent attitude of the mugwumps on here
     
  15. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Also it should be taken into account, regarding Jeremy Corbyn, that he make be a great campaigner, seem like a nice guy,and appeal to a big section of labour supporters. But he has still essentially failed, and failed in a campaign that is seen as a bad result for the tories in a party leadership sense.
     
  16. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    What was all the stuff about Corbyn supporting the IRA? I guess the Right plays it up and the Left plays it down, and the truth is somewhere in the middle.
     
  17. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    That was about corbyn, who is a friend of Irish republican dissidents, asking two it's members to speak in the house if commons, a few weeks after the blast that was an attempt to kill Maggie, the right play it up, and the left, deny it and claim it is all up as some sort of coincidence. he also supposedly has links with hamas to
     

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