More show or opening titles?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by KingR76, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    i think the opening teaser clips are needed, they are quite iconic for the show like the momment you hear dun dun dun dun dun at start you know what is about to happen =)
     
  2. supercat

    supercat Console Officer

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    But I find the s1 and s2 opening to be iconic. Also dramatic, artistic, clever, beautiful... I could go on :-p
     
  3. sundayforsammy

    sundayforsammy Deck Sergeant

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    Opening credits can catch the viewer that was maybe watching the program on previously. So I now think they are a neccesary part of the show. I did lke the atmospheric openings to S1- 2. But I also lke the lead guitar theme to later series'

    I think Doug Naylor should just trust his own opinion and go for what he wants.
     
  4. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    It's easy to find out who worked on a show nowadays with imdb. I'd rather more content than being told who the 2nd assistant sound technician was!
     
  5. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Well, personally i would love to see a similar opening to the first few series', for the first ep at least. But on the other hand i love the opening montage sequences too. i think they set up the feel for the show nicely, so ideally would like to see those incorporated too...but not at the expense of valuable in-show material, so for that reason i would say go for (a shorter) old school somber opening, and perhaps a shorter end credits sequence too if possible.

    I think it's a real shame that they're even having to edit the shows from around 34 minutes to 28 mins or whatever. Having a 35 minute show in a 45 minute slot would make far more sense, surely...if and unless Doug feels the shows do need editing slightly anyway for whatever reason ("pacing" or whatever). Although i realize it's likely not as straight forward as that, what with inherent boundaries set and whatnot.

    However, that said, i'm fairly certain that some episodes of Fawlty towers (among other's) have a running time of 34 minutes, while other ep's are still around the usual 29 minutes. Doesn't seem to happen much, if at all these days though unfortunately, especially on advertisement funded channels.
     
  6. PaddyC84

    PaddyC84 Second Technician

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    How about the opening we got for the remastered episodes in Series 3? Somber start to the opening but then when we pull back from Red Dwarf in kicks the guitar and we're off. Pleases everyone then, no?:-)
     
  7. Seymour_Clufley

    Seymour_Clufley First Technician

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    No, it is like painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa.

    Anyway, is this really a problem in the age of DVD and iTunes? Why don't they just make a full version of each episode for those formats, then cut it down (possibly replacing the start/end titles with shorter, quicker versions) for the broadcast? We can all watch the broadcast on the understanding that the DVD version will be longer.
     
  8. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    I think its good that there's a rigid half-hour format. It leads to a more disciplined approach. A sitcom shouldn't be more than that. The multi-part episodes demonstrate what happens when that rule is broken.
     
  9. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

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    I think the new run time is fine. Doug said a standard 22/23 minute runtime to fill 30 minutes of airtime wasn't enough to tell a Red Dwarf episode. If these come in at about 28 minutes an episode, we're on a par with the BBC Red Dwarf episodes. And that makes me happy
     
  10. mccollough

    mccollough First Technician

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    I personally think something similar, but not identical to the Remastered opening...

    Start with a slow pan of the ship to the sombre music... don't think the painting works anymore, why would lister be on paint duty? But a slow pan of the ship followed by a long shot of it flying through space would really show the isolation before we launch into the rocky opening montage which show not the funniest, but the second funniest bits. I really think the actual best bits should be left as a surprise for those of us not lucky enough to have seen the recordings.

    So yeah, my ideal opening would go as followed.

    1. Sad sombre music as we pan past the ship
    2. as sombre music ends we cut to the Dwarf, alone in space.
    3. BOOM! the rocky bit starts, and we get a montage containing some of the reasonably good stuff, but nothing so funny it'll be a shame to ruin it.
    4. We get the red dwarf logo and episode title.


    As for closing credits, stick with the classic pan of the ship, why fix it if it aint broke eh?!
     
  11. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I had a feeling someone was going to say this...But I don't understand why one would want to put such physical restraints on Doug's creativity, and by choice too?? "a more desciplined aproach"? Smeg that, let him go!. Many Only Fools And Horses episodes that ran at 50 minutes were brilliant, and i'm sure Doug could write some most excellent 50 minute Red Dwarf episode too.

    I don't feel there's a need for static restraints. If the epidodes come in at 28 mins and that's what works best for that specific episode, then great!. And if they come in at 34 minutes, 38 minutes, 45 minutes or 48 minutes, again, great!, so long as it's for the better of the episode and doesn't need editing for "pacing" reasons or whatever. I really don't get why any fan would want to limit or support the creative restraints put on it's creator. The only reason i can see for that is in a lack of trust in Doug.

    As for the multi part episode of series 8, i find that an odd example to use for such an argument. Again i feel that had Doug been allowed to make the individual episodes slightly longer, rather than having to stick to such a rigid half hour format, then there would've been no need to add...what some feel is a certain amount of needless filler in the subsequent episodes. Just let it flow naturally i say.

    Putting a set, static time limit on every episode in an entire series seems massively counter productive to the creativity, as would be the case if the same was done in music ("3 minutes and 30 seconds per song, No more!, No less!", Pffft!)

    Ps; Personally i think Back in the Red Xtended is a fine episode indeed.
     
  12. yeckel

    yeckel Console Officer

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    Grumble...growl.....I care who the 2nd assistant sound technician was. :lol: I think if the crew doesn't get their credit time then none of the actors should either. :P

    How about the credits in the corner of the opening scene of the show. Kind of like, "How it's Made" ending credits but done in the beginning. ;-)

    I really liked the Holly head opening from the earlier seasons/series...whatever you want to call them. I'm not a fan of the montage sequence. Surprise me with what is going to happen, please! If you show lister wacking his package during a failed ninja attempt in the opening sequence, I don't find it as funny when it actually happens IN THE SHOW. I beg you, don't spoil the funny bits.
     
  13. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    When Only Fools & Horses went to 50 minute episodes is when the rot set in, it turned into a drama with loads of domestic issues rather than a sitcom. The 30 minute running time fits the sitcom, when it strays from that it becomes self indulgent to the detriment of the comedy.
     
  14. sundayforsammy

    sundayforsammy Deck Sergeant

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    well to be honest mona lisa would have looked prettier with a moustache. :-D
     
  15. mccollough

    mccollough First Technician

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    Little mock up I created, clips are from Back to earth, but it gives the general feel of what I'm hoping for! :-)

    https://www.youtube.com/v/AWs9Hp4Fl40?version=3&hl=en_GB&rel=0
     
  16. mccollough

    mccollough First Technician

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  17. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Well, i disagree, but you're entitled to your opinion of course.

    John Sullivan admitted on a few occasions that he had always struggled to fit his naturally long scripts into such a short running time. A great deal of material had to be cut from the scrips right from series one, and i think that's a real shame.

    Also, upon watching the deleted scenes on the Red Dwarf dvds, it becomes clear (to me at least) that there were a lot of great scenes cut, scenes and gags that would've fit perfectly into certain episodes. I mean, sure some were cut for various other reasons and the end results were likely the better for it, but in many other cases a lot of great scenes and gags were cut purely because they were circumscribed to the confines of the strict limits put on their work.

    As mentioned on the series 6 deleted scenes section "A great deal of good dialogue had to be culled from Emohawk", for one of many examples.

    "As with most edits, these were made to keep the episode's running time to the designated half hour"

    This is a dredful reason to have to cut great scenes, and i think it's a sad day when writers, directers are made to do so for the sake of an extra few minutes (or much longer even if logical to do so for the specific episode).

    28 minutes!, 34 minutes, surely a bit of give should be allowed there..? Or do you honestly think the episodes will only be any good if they're extactly 28 minutes long? You think that extra 6 minutes would inherently ruin the episode?
     
  18. Presuming Ken

    Presuming Ken Deck Sergeant

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    What absolute twaddle :P

    Have you seen the series 2 episode 'No Greater Love' where Del gets beaten up to protect Rodney?

    Or 'Who Wants to be a Millionaire?', Where the Trotter family nearly break up but Del gives up on a dream to keep it together.

    'Thicker Than Water' perhaps? Where Reg Trotter comes back to the family he abandoned 25 years ago?

    And i'll even raise you a 'Strained Relations'. Perhaps the most emotional Only Fools ever. Burying grandad and trying to come to terms with it....

    These were all 30 minute episodes.

    Only Fools has always been a domestic sit-com with domestic issues. Going to 50 minutes didn't make any difference to that. Except we got an extra 20 minutes of comedy a week which was awesome.

    And also, the viewing figures rocketed for the 50 minuters. And kept climbing until it's end.

    The only time it screwed up was the final final trilogy.

    So, sorry, but you are wrong in what you say :-p
     
  19. Presuming Ken

    Presuming Ken Deck Sergeant

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    And just to reinforce my point, if you asked 100 people to name their Only Fools memories, i reckon that most or all would include:

    Del falling through the bar.

    The inflatable dolls.

    Rodney having to pretend to be 14 on holiday.

    The coach blowing up at Margate.

    'C..wwwayayyyying, over you.....'

    The jumbo jet over the flat.

    Etc etc. Just a few of the classic funny moments from the 50+ minuters :P
     
  20. jaybo1973

    jaybo1973 Catering Officer

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    We discussed this quite recently and like I said then series 1/2 intro all the way! get back to its roots. Where did Doug ask these questions?
     

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