Neither sight nor sound?????

Discussion in 'THE AIGBURTH ARMS' started by neilold, May 11, 2017.

  1. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    When a tree falls in a forest does it make a sound?

    No. Sound is the brain's perception of air molecules vibrating across a distance and for a duration. Yes, the tree still moves all those air molecules when it falls, but it makes no sound because there is nobody around to translate those vibrating molecules into sound.

    But then again

    I believe it is YES, because a fact (action/sound/whatever) is still there (or has been there), even if it cannot be "proved". The fact in itself doesn't need to be proved, to exist.
     
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  2. Asclepius

    Asclepius Supply Officer

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    Oh, @neilold has hyperactive day today. So many new threads. :eek:
     
  3. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    That was an interesting post, to be fair.
     
  4. Pembers

    Pembers Deck Sergeant

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    It was, I personally think 'yes' it makes a sound. If the TV is on with volume and you go out, it's still making a sound.
     
  5. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    But is it actually making a sound,or is it just our perception of what translated sound is
     
  6. Iced Gemz

    Iced Gemz Catering Officer

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    It makes a sound but it doesn't create sound sensation which are not something different! :-D
     
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  7. jmc2000

    jmc2000 Deck Sergeant

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    The key variable is whether anyone's around to hear it, and you haven't given us that information :-)

    In the absence of a listener, I'd say "no". Sound is something we make in our heads, to alert us to disturbances in the air. We evolved hearing to detect nearby events.

    It's a bit like saying, if a tree catches fire and there isn't a smoke detector, is there still an alarm? No - there's only smoke.

    Sounds are "alarms" that our brains make, when our ear-bones are rattled by movements in the air.

    FYI, the dictionary I checked gave the sensation of sound and vibrations that cause it as definitions of "sound". So, from a dictionary point of view, there's still a sound if no one's around to hear.

    But there's a deeper philosophical question here. To take it even further, I'd argue that there isn't even a "tree" if no humans are around to observe it. "Tree" is a label we give to the various impressions that a tree makes on our senses. The concept of "tree" is an abstraction and an oversimplification.

    IMO, any noun other than a proper noun is instantly a "useful fiction", because you're lumping together different things based on shared attributes, in the way most convenient to humans. All language is a step removed from actual reality.
     
  8. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    That's a thoughtful and thought provoking answer jmc. unfortunately things must exist to question their existence. As popeye once said. So therefore a tree exists regardless of us questioning its namesake, abstraction or not is irrelevant, as u cud describe everything, including your own individual peercption of what an abstraction is, as well as in what circumstances ur r using said description of abstraction as an abstraction within itself

    The trouble is the all encompassing doubt, doubts itself, logic, and even thought and doubt itself
     
  9. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Poplars let out a low sigh I gather, oaks go whhoooooah crunch, and willows say ouch.
     

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